I'd like to thank y'all for the information and help with my .32 Hammerless the other day.


Now, I have more questions, this time about a tip-up revolver. It's #41126.


I'd like to learn the model, the age, and the caliber. The hinge is worn, so there is some play in the barrel, and the cylinder doesn't lock up. As you can see by the photos, the spur of the hammer is broken off, too (I do have the broken piece, by the way). The rear face of the cylinder is stamped B 3, and the rear of the barrel also carries the same stamp.


I don't believe it would ever be a shooter again, but would it be worthwhile to have the hammer repaired or replaced?

Thank you.
Frank Brower

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I'll take a swag. It looks like 1 and 1/2 2nd model Rimfire tip up. You can shoot it if you can find Rimfire 32. I would take it to a gunsmith and have him or her Silver solder that tip back on that hammer. Then you can stick it in a shadow box.

Guy

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Guy has the ID just right. Your 2nd Model has seen better days. As you state, the hammer spur is broken, but the bigger issue is that the hinge has been riveted together. That was not original and it looks like the hinge has been drilled to accept the rivet. That means that you cannot reinstall the original original style screw without the original threads. It would also be an issue that would prompt me never to shoot it again. It is best put in a nice display box. Grab some Liquid Steel epoxy and glue the hammer spur back onto the hammer for the display and it will look great in a shadow box. This model was manufactured from 1868 to 1875 in serial number range 26,301 to 127,100. Your revolver likely shipped in 1869 or 1870.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

If you look closely at the photo I zoomed in on? The top of the frame at the hinge location has been welded on.(Very common on these).
I'd be interested in seeing a photo of the top of the gun? Where the barrel meets the frame? It might have actually been cut off or broken off and welded back on since the GAP from the forcing cone and the front of the cylinder is "HUGE". I'd like to see what they did?

They also screwed up on their measurements when they welded the hinge back on. The action will never function correctly with that huge gap. The cylinder will want to walk forward when you work the action causing the lockup to fail.

Soldering a hammer spur will work but not for shooting. At least it would look a lot nicer.

So basically I agree with the Shadow box idea.

Murph

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Yea, but the front sight looks nice!

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I third the suggestion for a shadow box, for all of the reasons mentioned.

It's a New Model 1 1/2. Probably dates to 1869 or 1870. There were about a hundred thousand of these guns made, so they're not particularly rare.

An excellent (and fully functional) version of this gun could be found in the $400 to $500 range, which would make the cost of the repairs needed to this gun very prohibitive ... especially given that a heavily repaired and restored version would only be worth (at best) a few hundred dollars to another collector.

Mike

Shadow box displays are fun, and you can enjoy them daily. Here's one I have had in my home office for quite a # of years.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

They do make interesting "Wall Hangers." Especially if they have a family history.

Books

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Yes, I like the shadow box option best for this old thing. I'll shoot some close-ups of the hinge for you in the morning.

Thanks.

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P1190128.jpgAs promised, here are some close-ups of the hinge.

Browerpatch,
Excellent photo's.

It's actually not as bad as I thought but looks like from the photo's that they heated the upper frame and heavily peened it with a small hammer while the barrel was on it in an attempt to take up the wobble and install that frame pin at the same time. Lots of peen(hammer)dents are visible.

By doing so with the frame likely heated prior to peening, they stretched it and kinda crushed it. You can clearly see that the top strap spring galley is stretched and the ears of the hinge are folded in and under.

I'd leave the hinges alone but definitely fix the hammer spur. If it was my antique I would weld the hammer but that's up to you. A weld is permanent. Especially since you still have the original busted off part. Also, if it was mine I would weld a new forcing cone on the barrel and trim it down to take up that gap from the cone to the face of the cylinder. That's also an easy and fun repair. That would stop the cylinder from walking forward and might repair the action. If you push the cylinder back with your index finger while drawing the hammer back? Does the action work? If so, building metal on the forcing cone will repair the action issue. However, it could also be as simple as a weak hand spring? Perhaps the cylinder is too far back due to the hand spring being missing?

The hinge repair is good enough as it is and not worth the time to repair.

The actual finish on the gun is smooth brown. I like it since you can still see some original bluing behind the recoil shield.

That's just what I would do but if you're not into welding? the shadow box idea works perfectly.


Murph

Murph,
Thanks for the excellent suggestions, but I don't weld (I wish I did). In lieu of that, do you think that silver soldering it would be reasonably strong? I don't want it to break off again if someone cocks the hammer. That's why I haven't epoxied it yet.

Probably not going to do much to it beside the hammer repair, and put it in a shadow box.


Frank

It's questionable whether solder would be enough to hold the spur in place if it was cocked, but if it's in a shadow box it probably won't be getting cocked anyways. And silver solder would be a more appropriate fix than epoxy.

Mike

Well,
The real issue in my mind regarding a solder repair is appearance and strength. It's a low temp repair (300-500 degrees normally) therefore a weak repair. It might feel strong? but if you drop the hammer under main spring tension it could easily break the repair. You also can't normally chemically color solder. It sticks out. Brazing is a very strong option but again the color isn't appealing. Looks like brass on metal. You can clearly see the repair no matter what you do except maybe paint the hammer? Lots of new guns are actually painted so it can be done. A gas braze would be a 1700 degree repair which is close to a weld repair performed with a gas torch. Then file it down smooth and use a high tech dark paint that's baked on. My son has done this to a few of his curio semi-auto rifles and it really turned out great with a very durable and attractive finish. So many options.

You might want to shop around first, talk to friends and see if you can find someone who does welding work as a hobby, etc.

Show them the hammer and see if they can put a quick weld on it for you. Even that would look better than solder. You can carefully dremmel it smooth and color it with bluing/ browning, acid...until it looks good. Then its a permanent fix. That's what I recommend.

Or see if you can find someone who works on cars and welds frames or motorcycles etc. There is always someone in the neighborhood who works on cars and or bikes. I guess that was me 40 years ago.

Those type of folks do their own welding. Don't let them 240vt stick weld it though....Only Mig(wire feed 120vts) or Tig(focused) welding.

Then the repair is actually permanent. You can play with the action without the hammer spur breaking off in your hand. I honestly loath repairing anything twice.

Murph

You have what's known as a relic, and for several good reasons it is unsuitable for firing. As others have said, its highest and best use is as a display piece.

You know Frank,
It's all about perception. Most collectors don't work on antiques. Their perception is solely based on existing condition and rarity. I understand this perception but I was raised basically on making things work. So, I guess those that have had to make things work throughout their lives see things a little differently. I look at your antique and I see potential based on overall condition. Existing parts alone are worth quite a bit. So don't be fooled by others perception of your antique. It has some honest value.

This says it better. See photo 1. I took this photo on the day of the show in my truck on my lap. This is my latest project completed. Everyone that saw this "parts antique" at the last show I attended looked at it with the typical "gross" facial expression. Then I was able to access the front of this table an asked the dealer if I could see it.

All matching, the ejector is there and functioning, bore is dirty but no visible rust, same with chambers. I asked him what he wanted for it and he gave the same "gross" expression that is typical of folks that don't get their hands dirty. He said and I quote:" That rusty!? Give me $20.

Photo 2 is NOT photoshopped, it's NOT another antique. It's the same antique after I finished careful cleaning and assembly with parts that I have accumulated over the years from the same type of folks who see no value in them. This is the result and can be the same result for your antique if you put your mind to it. So, what's my $20 rusty worth now? You tell me. Now the "Perception" changes. The Gross look just disappeared! Didn't it?

Murph

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