I won't bore you all with a litany of curses over the stupidity of the Canadian gun laws, but I'd like to share some pics of what I am allowed to own without registration. I like the idea of something that my wife, with her small hands, can shoot comfortably and I wanted something that is more my size and I could legally carry when I went bush walking or bow hunting. I had a very nice Marlin top-break 32 Standard in .32rf which the wife quite liked. I lucked into the top-break S&W which my wife liked more and so the Marlin was sold to a dealer. For myself, I got my hands on a Frontier DA with 4" factory barrel in .44 Russian. It had been reblued, obviously, which damages the collector value, but I meant it to be used, not just admired. Both show some black powder pitting but minor compared to some old pistols I've seen. Since they're classed as "antique", I'm not required to keep them under lock and key. Opinions and observations are more than welcome. Enjoy.

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Both look decent. The reblue doesn't help value any but I have found a few decent older shooters thanks to a gun being refinished. Put 'em in a price range I could afford and no worry about hurting original finish either. You must have a good stash of the 32 rimfire if you actually shoot (and carry!) one. That stuff is getting harder and harder to find, rarely shoot any of mine anymore,

I have the best part of a box of CIL made .32 rf. The ammo is in very good shape and yes, it's pricey as all get out now. I plan to put maybe 10 rounds through it with the wife to get her comfortable handling it, clean it, and put it by for the "what if" times. I like the idea that she has something available for her when I'm away hunting or working up north. The .44 will be a bush carry for me. I'm in the process of trying to source a good belt holster for it. I'd like to replace the grips as well. These are just too smooth.

Off the subject but when I lived in Calgary, CIL .32 RF shorts were .60c and any Sporting Goods store had them. I really wish they would be manufactured again.

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Mike Maher #283

Thanks for posting this.

I'm well aware of Canadian gun law stupidity. I grew up near Finch & McCowan, not that far from the old Para-Ordnance factory. At least one kid I went to public school with had a dad that worked in that factory.

Some years back I reached out to the RCMP to find out if the S&W Model 1 would be considered a prohibited weapon. I argued that it isn't, since the old .22 black powder rimfire round hasn't been made in well over a century. The confirmed that it is indeed a prohibited weapon, since it could still chamber a .22 short.

So, there you go. You can own an antique .32 rimfire pistol but not the same gun in .22

Mike

To the OP are muzzle loaders either modern or antique prohibited?

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Randy

Nice old S&Ws!!

Do you load your own Black Powder Cartridges for the .44 Russian "DA" Revolver?

How is Canada for letting people load their own Cartridges?

Long guns are non restricted, or at least they used to be before the latest wave of Australian-style anti gun legislation. So far, if they're less than 20mm bore diameter, they're still non restricted.

So far, the looney Liberals haven't gone after components so reloading is still common amongst the shooting fraternity. Give 'em time, and they'll try to restrict that also.

One question though, I'm told the tip-up revolver is an early Mod.1-1/2. Is this correct? Thanks to you guys, I've got a pretty good handle on the .44 Russian.

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Yes. It should have a 5 shot cylinder.

Mike

Hey Mike, it does indeed.

Yes, it's an Old Model 1 1/2. There were about 26,000 of these guns made between 1865 and 1868.

I wonder if your gun was originally shipped to Canada, or if it worked its way up there later?

Mike

Way back when, Canadians had access to British arms (of course) but cross-border commerce was very strong so many American made arms found there way up here.

.44 Russian huh? That's a round you don't see very often. Very cool revolver!

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USMC 83'-87', NRA Member.

Old Guns Canada has a beautiful nickel long barreled one for sale now on their site. Sadly, someone with much deeper pockets than mine could afford.

Hello, Unfortunately, I'm not knowledgeable as to current Canadian Firearms & Ammunition related Laws in regards to ordering / purchasing handgun ammunition, but, if at all possible, I would begin searching for additional ammunition of both calibers. IIRC, 'The Old Western Scrounger', & Fiocchi both used to carry them, along with Navy Arms Corp., of New Jersey, USA. Off the top of my head, I can't recall exactly who may have these obscure / obsolete calibers at the moment, but I'm almost certain that with some searching you will be able to locate both of them. Also, keep in mind that although some may scoff at them, they have & will defend you if & when they're ever called upon to do so. Remember, if at all possible, try to choose an 'Flat Face' projectile, either Wadcutter or Semi-Wadcutter profile as opposed to Round Nose, as the Wadcutter style tends to be much more efficient. I wish you well in your search, & please keep us abreast of any progress. Take care,

Best, dpast32

Fiocchi .44 Russian is readily available here and I've ordered 2 boxes. Not that the pistol will likely see a lot of use, but thanks to you guys on the reloading forum here, I've obtained all the information I need should I elect to go the reloading route. When I shuffle off this mortal coil, my pistol will probably go to my nephew and I'd like to know that his use of it is assured going forward. As to my wife's .32 rf., I don't think we'll expend more than 10-15 rnds. out of the box in getting her comfortable with it. That will allow more than enough for any future "what if" scenarios. I have enough long guns and food for 'em to take care of myself in any civil or social disorder events. Thank God none of my long guns are on the new Liberal ban list.

You can still buy .44 Russian. It's made by Fiocchi. However, .32 RF is not made or imported any longer. It is possible to find an insert that will allow shooting in a .32 RF gun, but it is made in France, IIRC, and rarely seen in the US.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

What's involved in nailing down the year of manufacture? Is there a site I can visit or do I have to contact Smith & Wesson for a formal letter, which I assume comes at a cost. My pistol is #22198, which I was told is fairly early.

Your 1-1/2 was likely shipped in 1868.

Guy

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

I agree with Guy. I'll wager early in the year; maybe February or March.

Mike

The only way to nail the ship date is with a letter. They presently are $100US. The form can be downloaded (it's near the top of the forum page). My opinion; take Guy and Mike's number and run.

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Mike Maher #283

Thank you. Sorry if I wasn't too clear, but the serial number I gave was for the DA in .44 Russian. The serial on the 1-1/2 is 8825. Can you give me an idea of dates with the updated information?

The .44 DA frame was made before 1899. However, when it left S&W can only be determined by an historian's letter. The serial number is mid-way through the production range. Your .32 tip-up 1-1/2 was likely made in 1865...first year production. More information on these models and all other S&W models is contained in the Standard Catalog of S&W, 4th Edition, by Supica and Nahas. I highly recommend that anyone with a S&W gun buy this book.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

I don't keep data for the .44 DA's, but your 1 1/2 with serial number 8,825 probably shipped around November of 1865.

Mike

Here's my dilemma gentlemen. If the information I have is accurate, production of the DA's started in 1886 and ran to 1899. Under U.S. law, pre 1899 is an antique. Under Canadian law, the cut-off date is 1898. If my frame was made near the end of the run, I'm in illegal possession of a handgun. If it was early or mid run, I'm OK. I may have to bite the bullet and spend the money to get the S&W official letter giving the date of manufacture. For my needs, the shipping date per se is not germane, but it wouldn't hurt to have a little more history on the piece.

There are kits designed for .32RF reloading use. They basically use an offset priming method in the cases. (Definitely not cheap but maybe lesser expensive versions could be found or made?)

Unfortunately I don't know if it would be legal for Canadians to use........maybe so?

32 RF - 38 RF - 41 RF reloading kits and components prices - HLebooks.com

We can get those kits up here. Fortunately, I'll be shooting that little .32rf so rarely that expect the ammo to last for years. Once we get the gun/militaria shows up and running again, I can usually find a box or two at the shows.

I believe forum member opoefc (Ed) has some of the production floor foreman's logs. He may be able to tell you the exact day your .44 DA was made.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629