Hello S&W Collectors. I just won a gun on RIA that they described as an experimental mod 1 1/2 from the Gerald Klaz collection But when I got it here I positively think they were wrong. This must be a Model 2 "second issue" The frame is a model 2 frame. The Otteman collection had a regular model 2 with baghandle shaped grip. But this one is a perfect looking 2nd issue (which does not exist in any books I have) Would love to get in touch with the grand old man if you see this

Attached Images

	S&W no 2 experimental 2.jpg (65.6 KB, 76 views)
	S&W no 2 experimental drums2.jpg (61.0 KB, 65 views)
	S&W no 2 experimental.jpg (72.6 KB, 68 views)

Is it six shot or five? Model 11/2 are five shot.

As you can see its a 6 shot like the model 2. With the model 2 frame. Model 2 size drum. 1 1/s has five shot. smaller drum and frame. It was sold on RIA as a one and half experimental 6 shot. But its not in my humble opinion. Paul

Attached Images

	Skjermbilde 2020-09-30 kl. 17.15.29.jpg (23.9 KB, 31 views)
	Skjermbilde 2020-09-30 kl. 17.15.57.jpg (25.6 KB, 15 views)

Hello, I opened a post about this:

n2 new model ?

but I haven't had any new information since.
In order to continue my research and understand this modification, I would like to know more about your copy
-The complete serial number (the one under the grip)

-the assembly numbers (original and those added for the modification)
-The place of purchase: Europe or United States, (Mr. Roy G. Jinks was thinking of a modification made in France)
-As well as precise photographs


Bibain

Attached Images

les deux bis.jpg (19.1 KB, 33 views)

Heres the description from RIA. I cannot believe this gun is not known to the S&W collectors as I assume Dr Gerald Klaz would have done extensive research on this one. Also see picture of the modified NO 2 that was in the Otteman collection. I have seen the comments on your previous thread. I do not believe this is an european mod or manufacture as I have seen a lot of the S&W copies. Paul

Auction: 80
Serial Number: 855
Manufacturer: Smith & Wesson
Model: 1 1/2
Gauge: 32 RF
Barrel: 4 1/4 inch solid octagon
Finish: blue
Grip: N/A or Unknown
Stock: N/A or Unknown
Condition:
Fine. The barrel and cylinder retain 40% original blue finish and the frame retains 80% original blue finish with the balance a smooth brown-gray patina. A collector number is marked on a spot of varnish located on the back strap. Traces of faded original case colors remain on the hammer. The grips are very good with a couple tiny chips near the butt and a number of minor handling marks. Mechanically excellent. A S&W collection, no matter how advanced, cannot be considered complete with out this experimental Model Number 1 1/2 revolver.
Description:
Offered here is an experimental variation to S&W's highly successful Model Number 1 1/2 revolver series, one of two currently known to exist, the other example is in a European collection. It is similar in appearance to the 1 1/2, 2nd Issue such as the single action tip-up frame, birds head grip, fluted cylinder, spur trigger and round ribbed barrel. Here are where the similarities end as the revolver has a 4 1/2 inch barrel which is longer than the standard 3 1/2 inch barrel, a wider profile birds head grip frame which allows for more surface area for the operator's hand to grasp, and a 6-shot cylinder instead of the standard 5-shot cylinder for additional firepower. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that this experimental arm tested the feasibility of a larger sized variation to S&W's first medium size cartridge revolver. The serial number "855" is on the butt. Assembly number "66" is found on the grip frame, rear cylinder face and in pencil on both grip panels. The right grip panel is also stamped with the number "65855." The front cylinder face has the assembly marking "I 10." The barrel has the assembly marking "Q8." The barrel rib is stamped "SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS," the standard legend used on 1 1/2s.
It certainly is a must have for the serious S&W collector! * Provenance: Dr. Gerald Klaz collection. Description:
Offered here is an experimental variation to S&W's highly successful Model Number 1 1/2 revolver series, one of two currently known to exist, the other example is in a European collection. It is similar in appearance to the 1 1/2, 2nd Issue such as the single action tip-up frame, birds head grip, fluted cylinder, spur trigger and round ribbed barrel. Here are where the similarities end as the revolver has a 4 1/2 inch barrel which is longer than the standard 3 1/2 inch barrel, a wider profile birds head grip frame which allows for more surface area for the operator's hand to grasp, and a 6-shot cylinder instead of the standard 5-shot cylinder for additional firepower. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that this experimental arm tested the feasibility of a larger sized variation to S&W's first medium size cartridge revolver. The serial number "855" is on the butt. Assembly number "66" is found on the grip frame, rear cylinder face and in pencil on both grip panels. The right grip panel is also stamped with the number "65855." The front cylinder face has the assembly marking "I 10." The barrel has the assembly marking "Q8." The barrel rib is stamped "SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS," the standard legend used on 1 1/2s.

Attached Images

S&W mod 2 baghandle.jpg (19.0 KB, 40 views)

I am not sure if this website or owner is still active, but I would try contacting him.

Smith and Wesson Model 2 Army Revolver

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Whatever you finally discover about the piece, what a beauty!

On the two copies that I know there are two series of assembly numbers
the original ones (I10 & Q8 on yours)
those of the transformation (66 on yours)
The serial numbers are very close to the one I talk about in my post (year 1869) the second being from 1870
The n1 3 issue and n 1 ½ 2 issue appeared in 1868/1869
It should be noted that the 65xxx and 70xxx series have been delivered to France a lot.
Regarding the question: who carried out this transformation? we don't know any more, just guesses. maybe a request for a letter of authentication would give an answer.

Unfortunately I can't find a link on this sale


Bibain

How about a link to the RIA listing?

It was the last RIA auction just now. I have read some of the answers you received stating a plausible french alteration. I do not find this very likely. And also unlogical.
1: Like the brevette Colts, when you see the European copies of S&W theres always differences. At the time when there was money in making copies of the known American arms, nobody could check millions of pictures in books or on the net obviously. Hence the copies did not need to be perfect in all minuscule details. It would be to expensive.
2: I am 99,99% sure this is a genuine old model S&W gun. If in France: Why do such an effort make a perfect looking alteration of the old mod to a model of the S&Wno 2 that did not exist? Makes no sense.
3: We know the S&W company changed the no 1 and 1 1/2 to the new modern looking models with fluted cylinders and birdshead grips. We know they tried a larger version with 41 calibre as an experiment. We know of several factory alterations on this model. I could reason that it`s illogical that the developers at the S&W factory did NOT make a specimen (or three) of the model 2 frame they eventually produced in the no1 and 1 1/2 frames.
4: It could be a later American forgery. Trying to create an un-existing model worth thousands of dollars?

link to the auction: https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...-1-12-revolver

I have sent him a mail, but the video is from 2001....

Thank you for the link
the origin of the modification is difficult to know.
All that I have concluded
- these are smith & wesson n2, not copies.
-The second series of assembly numbers suggests that there were several copies produced at the same time.
-The quality and regularity of the work (the 3 copies are perfectly identical) excludes for me the attempt of a subsequent and fraudulent modification
-I had totally excluded that this work was done by French gunsmiths like Claudin….
The fact that this copy was sold in the United States confirms that the modification was made in USA and exported to France.
Concerning a later modification in the factory, only a search in the archives of smith & wesson will give us the answer.

An assumption that remains personal: Perhaps a request from C W. MAY to modernize some copies ?(C W. MAY imported about 5000 sw n2 in 1870 in France)

Bibain