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  #1  
Old 10-17-2020, 09:25 AM
coyote139 coyote139 is offline
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Default strange Safety hammerless 38SW identification

Hello

I am considering purchasing a S&W 38SW Safety hammerless revolver. The revolver has a serial number 248xxx, 3 inch barrel, it has no patent date above the barrel, caliber and Smith&Wesson engraved on the sides of the barrel. All this points clearly to a 5th model (serial number starting at 220000). Except that it has a pinned front blade sight, like a 4th model, while it should be a machined one !

Is this possible ? I have seen short barrel 5th models with pinned front sight, but never one with a 3 inch barrel. Is it a genuine 5th model or something else ?



See pictures.



What dou you think of this revolver more generally ? I am quite tempted to buy it, it seems in pretty good condition.

Thanks you in advance for you help

Yours sincerely

Claude
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Old 10-17-2020, 09:42 AM
first-model first-model is offline
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Claude, does the serial number on the barrel match the rest of the gun? The barrel serial number should be located on the back of the barrel where it engages with the barrel catch. The numbers will be very small and you'll likely need a magnifying glass to identify it.

(the barrel catch should also be serial numbered.)

If it doesn't match, then I'd walk from the gun. These guns aren't that rare and a mismatched barrel will hurt its value and resale considerably.

Mike
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:07 AM
coyote139 coyote139 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by first-model View Post
Claude, does the serial number on the barrel match the rest of the gun? The barrel serial number should be located on the back of the barrel where it engages with the barrel catch. The numbers will be very small and you'll likely need a magnifying glass to identify it.

(the barrel catch should also be serial numbered.)


Mike
Hello Mike

Thank you for your fast answer. The seller has been asked this precise question (matching of the serial number on the barrel under the latch) and he did answer that all numbers match.

What is surprising, is that the seller has another hammerless safety 38Sw for sale, a nickel plated one which is less nice, but which follows the same pattern : serial number 253xxx in the 5th model range, engravings matching a 5th model, but again a pinned front blade. See pictures

You have perfectly understood my concern. Is this revolver a "fake" ? But that would be a difficult operation to "fake" such a revolver : if the front blade and the markings on the barrel were those of a 4th model, different serial numbers, OK, that clearly would be a fake. But here, there is just the front blade which does not match the description. And in 2 different revolvers !

Maybe sometime during the production run, there was a shortage of machined barrel and an old one with pinned front sight was used, but in that case, there would be more revolvers in that case, hence my question on this forum...

Otherwise I do agree, if I do have a doubt, I will not buy it.

Yours sincerely

Claude
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:08 AM
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Looks like an unmolested factory original to me. The very late 38 Safety, 5th Model revolvers used both forged and pinned barrels. The single line address on the top barrel rib is also 5th Model. Check the latch and look for the barrel assembly serial numbers up on the very rear of the top-frame where the top latch enters the frame.

It is believed by some that forged barrels were being used up late in production, and the factory still had forged 38 DA barrels around, so they were used to manufacture these revolvers.
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:18 AM
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See your images of the nickel 38 Safety. The gun has been re-plated over some pitting at some point outside the factory. The pearl stocks are also replacements and would not have been original from the factory.
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:20 AM
coyote139 coyote139 is offline
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Quote:
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See your images of the nickel 38 Safety. The gun has been re-plated over some pitting at some point outside the factory. The pearl stocks are also replacements and would not have been original from the factory.
Thanks for your analysis. I came to the same conclusion concerning the re-plating, it is visible on some of the pictures.

Yours sincerely

Claude
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:23 AM
coyote139 coyote139 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe View Post
Looks like an unmolested factory original to me. The very late 38 Safety, 5th Model revolvers used both forged and pinned barrels. The single line address on the top barrel rib is also 5th Model. Check the latch and look for the barrel assembly serial numbers up on the very rear of the top-frame where the top latch enters the frame.

It is believed by some that forged barrels were being used up late in production, and the factory still had forged 38 DA barrels around, so they were used to manufacture these revolvers.
Thanks for your answer, that is an hypothesis that I was considering, I have already seen similar cases. In your last sentence, you mean "pinned front sight barrel", not "forged barrel" ?

Yours sincerely

Claude
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Old 10-17-2020, 11:44 AM
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As others have said, the factory was in the business of getting guns out the door, and sometimes that meant mixing and matching parts to put guns together. And given that these guns don't tend to be worth a lot, I'm not sure why someone would try to "fake" a pinned front sight. It doesn't make it any more valuable ... just a bit of a curiosity.

And I also agree that the nickel gun has a poor replating job. It is worth very little, and one that I would pass on. The photos of the blued gun aren't good enough to really gauge the condition.

Mike
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:13 AM
coyote139 coyote139 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by first-model View Post
As others have said, the factory was in the business of getting guns out the door, and sometimes that meant mixing and matching parts to put guns together. And given that these guns don't tend to be worth a lot, I'm not sure why someone would try to "fake" a pinned front sight. It doesn't make it any more valuable ... just a bit of a curiosity.

And I also agree that the nickel gun has a poor replating job. It is worth very little, and one that I would pass on. The photos of the blued gun aren't good enough to really gauge the condition.

Mike
Hello Mike

Thank you for your answer. I have purchased the revolver and I have just received it. The condition is mint, just a small mark on the right of the barrel.

Thanks everybody for your advice !

Yours sincerely

Claude
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