I just purchased a 1917 Lemon Squeezer - Nickel plated - original pearl grips - 1" barrel. it came with a certificate of authenticity stating it shipped in 1917 to New Orleans in an order for (20} 2, 3 and 3.5" barreled revolvers. It said my 1" barrel may have been modified as he did not recognize the sight. I took the gun to a couple local guys and both said the barrel looked original. The sight has a number 35-A on one side and "MARBLE" on the other side. Any ideal what I have

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That's not a one inch barrel. It's probably 1 & 1/2. Measure from the front of the cylinder to the muzzle. The Marble sight is an after market addition, not factory. . The gun has been refinished, at least once. Stocks could be original. Is the gun's serial number inked on the back of the right stock ? Ed

Thats a nice job anyway you cut it...I'm building one right now and I think 1-3/4" might allow the lettering to balance on the 2" barrel I'm cutting down...yours looks significantly more than 1", I agree with Ed.

Ed sounds all negative but the pearl grips appear to be factory. Oops, Ed actually said that...

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

You are correct. from the front of the cylinder to the tip of the barrel 1.5"

serial number 212118Y

Is that serial number off the butt of the grip frame?

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Check the serial number again. It's not correct for a "Lemonsquezzer " Ser # should also be on the rear of the cylinder and on the bottom of the barrel latch and on the back of the barrel between the "ears " Ed

I have a couple similar 'bicycle guns'. One even has factory pearls like yours. If the front sight slot isn't cut into the patent info on top of the barrel, then it's the original barrel length. The caliber roll mark looks correctly centered for a factory snub.
The front sight was most likely upgraded to the Marble's Sheard target to improve shootability. I have a few of those in my parts stash. It's definitely easier to see than the factory extremely thin half moon front sight. That in itself will have little to no effect on value.
(if you want an original front sight, I have several NOS half moons that should be correct).
Yours appears to be in excellent condition.
Show a pic of the other side and of the top of the barrel rib and we can tell you if the finish is original.
My only inkling that it could have been refinished (professionally) is the sideplate gap is more visible than I'm used to seeing on untouched guns. It might just be the angle and lighting.
Since the case colors on the trigger are still vivid, it's probably original.
Nice find and it will make a fun shooter!

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Marble is to rifles as King is to handgun sights. Not sure Ive seen one for a handgun before.

I have a 3" 1896 Safety Hammerless, I had a holster made for my suspenders, and I've started carrying it when I'm dressed up as a BUG.

Ivan

yours is a beauty!!!

What exactly is a certificate of authenticity regarding an old non antique firearm?
I trust my eyes and instincts. I see a restored and altered gun with very nice factory pearls that are not original since they don’t fit the grip frame. Also, if you look closely the screw is not centered in the Pearl scale? Which is unfortunate since the scale has been Shaved shorter to semi- fit this frame. Which in my opinion destroys value! I also see a well cut barrel since the barrel rib is too far back from the muzzle. So many altered guns out there now it’s amazing. The “ Factory “ 1 1/2” barrel is “ Extremely Rare” !! But altered guns are extremely common.

Looking at that grip frame? It looks like it’s been shortened also! I’d like to see a photo of the frame with the shaved pearl grips off the gun. That would have removed the serial number!!!! I’m liking this altered gun less and less. Get your money back!!!


Murph

If you look closely? You can actually see the grip pin hole visible at the bottom of the scale! You’d have to shave 1/2” off the grip to see that hole. What the heck happened to this gun!!!

Murph

My factory lettered 1 1/2"bbl. .32 Safety Hammerless 3rd Model has no markings whatsoever on the barrel.
It shipped to West Virginia in 1937.

WB

Two points (that may have already been made)?

The letter of authenticity states this one was not originally a 1 1/2" barreled gun, so that (and the front sight) indicate it has been altered. In addition to the information on other guns in the shipment, didn't the letter state the original barrel length on this one?

It would have also stated if the MOP stocks came with the gun. I don't know if the dimensions are the same, but these may have been shortened from a gun with a longer grip frame, like an I size.

So, absent evidence of a factory modification such as a rework stamp, what you appear to have is a cool looking but non-original gun.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I did not see the OP state that there was a letter?? The factory offered a front target sight for many years and offered it in their catalogs, but it was was a Lyman not Marbles?? Grab a good magnifier heck again to make sure what you have.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Gary, I took “certificate of authenticity” and the mention of other guns in the shipment in the OP as evidence of the letter.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Thanks, Will never get used to that name, it will always be a factory letter to me.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Ok, let me clear some of this up. The ACTUAL serial number is 212167 and it is found on the bottom of the grip frame and on the cylinder of the revolver. The Cert of Authenticity reads, "We have researched your Smith &Wesson Third Model caliber .32 revolver in company records which indicate serial number 212167 was shipped from our factory on January 18,1917 and delivered to A. Baldwin and Co. New Orleans LA. The invoice for the shipment is not available. Shipping records indicate that the shipment was for 20 units and the factory offered this model in 2.3.3.5 and 6" barrel lengths. Based on the special sights it would appear that at some point this revolver could have been modified."

That's Great info,
Can you now grace us with a few more photo's of the gun? Grips off?, Muzzle? That's about all I'd like to see.

Let’s cut to the chase. Look at 3 photos of original unaltered Factory pearl grips. Then look at the last photo of the “ Chopped” grips with shaved frame on the OP’s gun and if there is a number? It’s re-stamped! NO QUESTION!

Look at where the main spring adjustment screw is on the unaltered Guns! Now look at the OP’s chopped gun?




Murph

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hope this helps

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I am very surprised that you posted those photos. I honestly appreciate your candor.

The gun has a nice polished finish appearance to it. The frame has, as I suspected, been heavily altered at the base of the grip where the original serial number would have been. I have no idea why anyone would do that except to "remove" the original number for some reason. I'll let you figure that one out.

I hope you didn't pay too much for this gun. I still recommend that you return it. By chopping the grips they now have little value. By grinding the base of the frame, the original number has been removed. There is little to no collector value in this piece. It might be a safe shooter but with all the alterations? I have my doubts.

Honestly, you can do much better than this piece. You should return it.

*** Also, the Factory Letter that you are calling a Certificate of Authenticity? Is not applicable nor would it be accepted as authentic since the frame serial number has been purposely removed. So, the letter doesn't help at all towards value.

Murph

the original serial number is still at the bottom of the grip

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Well,
Now I have seen it all.... You'd be hard pressed to convince any collector that someone would shave the "original" serial number off a gun only to later "re-apply" that number back on the same gun because????? That's called "alteration". That number could have been shaved off "any" gun and re-applied to this frame. I'd like to know what your opinion of why anyone would do this type of surgical alteration?

I honestly don't know what to say at this point. You don't seem surprised by any of this so I won't rain on your parade.

Murph

Smith and Wesson did not to any of their revolvers add another piece to the bottom, however expertly done this is an obvious attempt to cover-up either severe damage or purposeful tampering with the serial number. I would follow the advice of those far more astute than I and return to your seller.

I purchased this gun from an out of state dealer from an internet ad. The guy said it was a 1917 factory 1” nickel plate with pearl grips and a Smith and Wesson Letter of authenticity. I’m not a dealer nor did I buy it as an investment. I am just trying to find out what I have and to know if I should include it in my insurance plan or not. I agree that the barrel appears to be modified as part of the printing on the left side of the barrel appears to be missing. The serial numbers on the grip frame and the cylinder. The pearl grips do not appear to be shaved.

My candor is just that. I'm not trying to hide or prove anything. I buy guns that I like and are interesting.

Any help I can find is appreciated.

cheers!

I know nothing but what I learned reading the post here about these guns. But just being shipped to New Orleans at that time I wish it could tell me the stories of where it has been.

Thanks for all your help and have a great Christmas!

Same to you milwlandrover,

I've gone this far so lets take it to the finish line?

I think I have this figured out. Someone found a pair of original factory pearls that were damaged at the toe, base? So they decided to mill off the damage with likely a belt sander until all the chipped damage was gone.

Then, they decided to fit the shortened grips to the frame of a modified(shortened barrel) 32 S&W frame by shaving the serial number off the gun and milling off enough metal to get the pearl grips to fit. Then re-apply the original serial number back on the gun.

Do I get a cookie?

Would have been a lot easier to just have the Pearl grips repaired. It can be done and it turns out very nice. I had a pair of SAA pearls that were shattered and repaired by a jeweler. You can still see some of the lines but the grips are completely intact and solid. Polished smooth like a marble.


Murph

Some of you guys make it sound as if you've never seen a customized gun before. No, this is not a collector piece. It's an old gun that sometime in the last 100 years or so, someone has shortened the barrel and the grip frame. Professionals and bubbas both have done this since the beginning of guns. Pretty obvious that someone took an old top break (probably of negligible value at the time) and made it into an even more compact carry piece.

And they obviously didn't shorten the butt just to "remove" the serial number as they were conscientious enough to re-stamp it. The original poster did point out that the number on the cylinder matches. There is nothing nefarious or sinister looking about this. It's not an uncommon practice to re-stamp a modified gun, such as when converting a square butt to round.

"BUT HE DOESN'T KNOW THE TERRITORY!"

Interesting to say the least. Now, is it just me, or does the (re-finish) actually look more like Hard Chrome than Nickel?

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SWHF # 719

Thanks for this comment Tom. My thoughts exactly.

Original or not, it's a really cool gun. It was obviously modified to fit a purpose, which was self protection. In that role, it looks like it'll get the job done nicely.

I like it.

Sorry to be late back to the post. I think if the barrel length in the letter request was listed as 1 or 1.5" that Roy Jinks would have commented on its originality. Also, he probably looked for the invoice to see if any of the 20 guns in the shipment were listed by SN and barrel length.

However, if the letter request did not list the barrel length, I would expect the letter to read as quoted.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220