Serial number oddities on a Perfected model 3

kc-science · #1 01-06-2021, 01:45 AM

Hello everybody!

My grandfather recently passed away and left a Smith & Wesson "Perfected" single-shot top-break .22 caliber pistol, with the 10 inch "Olympic" barrel and an adjustable rear sight. The grandkids are wondering how much it's worth, because they would love to own Grandpa's old target pistol, but want to pay a price that is both fair to them and fair to the estate.

I took it to Cabela's Sporting Goods, and a gentleman in the Gun Library provided the following information:
* It has about 95% of it's bluing.
* It's a third model (based on the fact that is double-action and not single-action).
* However, the serial number (0257) is in the "second model" range, based on the Smith & Wesson book he was using. He considered this mismatch to be odd.
* The serial number has a leading zero, which he is not used to seeing on guns from that time period. He thought that was odd as well.
* These last two items make him wonder if this is a special version that was made for a special customer, etc. He recommended contacting Smith & Wesson and having them write an official letter for this gun, which he said costs about $100 and takes 2-3 months.

I looked at a bunch of completed auctions for .22 caliber Perfected model 3 pistols in similar condition, and it looks like this gun is worth roughly $1000.

However, the two things that the Cabela's gentleman considered odd might make this gun special, more collectable, more valuable, etc.

Does anybody have any insights about the serial number mismatch and the leading zero? Could these indicate something special, that would make it worth getting an official letter from the manufacturer?

(I have included a closeup picture of the serial number and the engraved bullet which demonstrates the Olympic barrel.)

Thank you VERY much for your time and expertise!

- Kevin

altbrewer · #2 01-06-2021, 08:31 AM

The leading zero on the serial number would indicate that this is a club gun. I'm no expert on valuation, but I suspect it is worth more than $1000. Maybe closer to $1500-2000, being a club gun and having the olympic barrel.

Club Gun Fan · #3 01-06-2021, 10:04 AM

It is a .22 Single Shot 3rd Model . It is a Club Gun. In the condition it's in and with the Olympic chamber add to the value , plus the fact it's a Club Gun, if I saw it in a shop for $2500.00, I'd own it. I collect Club Guns. I have 10 .22 Single Shot Club Guns in my collection. I would not hesitate to add this one to my collection. There are over 70 Single Shots in the total of over 700 Club Guns. They were made from 1899 to 1970. If you look closely, you may see other serial numbers. That is not unusual with Club Guns as they were sometimes put together using "condemned parts". They were built by the Service Department. If for some reason, it becomes available, call me, but, I hope it stays in the family.
Don Mundell
Assistant Historian
Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation

Wiregrassguy · #4 01-06-2021, 11:14 AM

Kevin, Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!

Don, am I correct that Club Guns were given to shooting clubs by S&W as a way to promote shooting sports and for marketing.

JSR III · #5 01-06-2021, 11:52 AM

Guy,

Not Don but that is my understanding as well, hence the name "club guns". Prizes for gun club shoots and I know personally that they were also given out to folks that S&W favored. I once owned a 1917 club gun that was given to the Army officer in charge of overseeing their production at the S&W factory.

That gun now resides at the Warren Massachusetts Club Gun Museum.

Club Gun Fan · #6 01-07-2021, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSR III

Guy,

Not Don but that is my understanding as well, hence the name "club guns". Prizes for gun club shoots and I know personally that they were also given out to folks that S&W favored. I once owned a 1917 club gun that was given to the Army officer in charge of overseeing their production at the S&W factory.

That gun now resides at the Warren Massachusetts Club Gun Museum.

Guy
I don't know where the term "Club Guns" came from. The many early serial number show they were given to shooters such as Charles Axtell, Walter Winan, Dr. Walter Smith and T McEwen. From my database, I don't show any going to a club until serial number 0318. I'm sure there were some sooner, but it's the earliest I have recorded. It was delivered to the Smith & Wesson Revolver Club.

kc-science · #7 01-07-2021, 01:42 AM

Wow! Thank you VERY much to everybody who replied! That "club gun" stuff is very interesting.

The gun has a little note with it, written by Grandpa, that says it was his dad's target revolver, given to him by his mother. Grandpa's father was one of the first commercial photographers ever, and we do have lots of glass plate negatives showing group portraits of various school classes, theater groups, and clubs. I wonder if he took a picture of the club the gun was given to by Smith & Wesson...

Do you think it would be worth getting a letter for the gun, in case if it was given to a notable historical figure or club?

Thanks again for your outstanding insight and help!

- Kevin

rct269 · #8 01-07-2021, 03:40 AM

It is absolutely worth getting a letter----and they are provided by the S&W Historical Foundation; not by S&W. You may contact the foundation through their forum (part of this site).

Ralph Tremaine

murphydog · #9 01-07-2021, 04:21 AM

Welcome, and here is the letter request form:

http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.com/swhf_letter.pdf

ol777gunnerz · #10 01-07-2021, 09:15 AM

Regular serial number guns also went to well known people back then also, of which I own two. Dr. R H Sayre of USRA fame was a personal friend of the family, he received this 1st model of 91 later modified for him by Harry Pope. The 3rd Model Perfected was "sent" to Victor H Wesson [DB Wesson grandson] who was shop superintendent & vice president Of S&W. S&W, along with Colt, also supplied all handguns for the USRA shooting teams sent to the Olympics [at least thru 1928 anyway]. No one knows what happened to these guns after the Olympics for sure anyway.

Club Gun Fan · #11 01-07-2021, 11:13 AM

It is worth a letter.
I also have a number of guns that the Wesson family owned as well as guns owned by factory employee's and notable shooters. Here are a few.

Borderboss · #12 01-07-2021, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol777gunnerz

Regular serial number guns also went to well known people back then also, of which I own two. Dr. R H Sayre of USRA fame was a personal friend of the family, he received this 1st model of 91 later modified for him by Harry Pope. The 3rd Model Perfected was "sent" to Victor H Wesson [DB Wesson grandson] who was shop superintendent & vice president Of S&W. S&W, along with Colt, also supplied all handguns for the USRA shooting teams sent to the Olympics [at least thru 1928 anyway]. No one knows what happened to these guns after the Olympics for sure anyway.

It's kind of ironic that the United States Revolver Association supplied single shot guns. I guess it was just the right tool for the job.

Great information in this thread everyone. Thanks for sharing.

Club Gun Fan · #13 01-07-2021, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borderboss

It's kind of ironic that the United States Revolver Association supplied single shot guns. I guess it was just the right tool for the job.

Great information in this thread everyone. Thanks for sharing.

John
The USRA did not supply the guns, Smith & Wesson did. According to USRA rules "Any" Pistol Match states using any type pistol. All members of the Springfield Revolver Club used Smith & Wesson Single Shots.

Boulder350 · #14 01-10-2021, 04:58 PM

How were club guns serial numbers determined? The example in this post has a serial number 0257. Does that mean that there were 256 club guns made before this one? Do the club gun numbers relate to the model type at all?

rct269 · #15 01-10-2021, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boulder350

How were club guns serial numbers determined? The example in this post has a serial number 0257. Does that mean that there were 256 club guns made before this one? Do the club gun numbers relate to the model type at all?

Well, it at least means there were 256 club guns on the Club Gun List before this one. Without having a leg to stand on, I'm VERY inclined to speculate/believe there are club guns---real, honest to God club guns, that are not on the list----------including what I'll call Zero (0) club guns (to include the several with 0 as the only serial number, as well as those such as this one where the serial number starts with a zero.

As an aside, I had one that had been delivered to a S&W Foreman which carried a regular everyday serial number. Our very own Club Gun Fan jumped on that like a duck on a June Bug when it went up for sale. In a later conversation he told me that as far as he was concerned it was a Club Gun--------and there's a picture of it up above here. As for me, when Mr. Don says something is a Club Gun, it's a Club Gun--------end of discussion.

Ralph Tremaine

And no, the Club Gun's serial number has nothing to do with what type of gun it is. I don't know the truth of it, but I've been told all of the Zero (only) guns went to Wesson family members-----and that's the only identifier of any sort I know about.

If Don chooses to chime in here with any little tid-bits, pay attention. I figure he's forgotten more about Club Guns than anybody else knows.

Club Gun Fan · #16 02-01-2021, 02:14 PM

I want to thank Kevin and his family in allowing me to add 0257 into my family of Club Guns. It's one of only a few I own where I can put a face with the gun. I plan on displaying it at the next gun show I attend, whenever that may be.

JSR III · #17 02-01-2021, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan

I want to thank Kevin and his family in allowing me to add 0257 into my family of Club Guns. It's one of only a few I own where I can put a face with the gun. I plan on displaying it at the next gun show I attend, whenever that may be.

Don did you send for letter on this one? Curious to see if the records state to whom or where it was shipped. That is quite a beautiful package. Glad it found its way into the Warren Massachusetts Club Gun Museum!!

Club Gun Fan · #18 02-01-2021, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSR III

Don did you send for letter on this one? Curious to see if the records state to whom or where it was shipped. That is quite a beautiful package. Glad it found its way into the Warren Massachusetts Club Gun Museum!!

I'm sending for a letter today, it may be a week before I did out from the snow!!!!

JSR III · #19 02-01-2021, 03:08 PM

Its just starting heavy here. Not looking forward to the results. THINK SPRING!! BRING ON GLOBAL WARMING!!

ol777gunnerz · #20 02-01-2021, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan

I want to thank Kevin and his family in allowing me to add 0257 into my family of Club Guns. It's one of only a few I own where I can put a face with the gun. I plan on displaying it at the next gun show I attend, whenever that may be.

So Don, which is worth more, a Club Gun, or a Wesson family member owned gun?

series guy · #21 02-01-2021, 06:05 PM

Just a bit of a rant here but it's disappointing that the Cabelas gun library employee gave such a low value on the gun. I purchased my 3rd Model Perfected from the Cabelas in WV a couple years ago. It was in the finest condition that I had ever seen on one of these and I called another forum member familiar with these to get his opinion. I paid $1850 for mine knowing it was at the top end of the price range but it's only the second one that I have personally seen for sale. So they would have that info in their data base. I know that it takes a decent profit to keep the doors open at a store that size but It's just a shame for someone to be that badly informed. Thank goodness the owner found the right place to get the correct information.

Club Gun Fan · #22 02-01-2021, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol777gunnerz

So Don, which is worth more, a Club Gun, or a Wesson family member owned gun?

In my opinion, both. I have 12 Wesson owned guns.
Here are a4 of my Wesson owned guns. The first is Frank .38 M&P, Daniel Wesson's 2" 22/32 Airweight, his nickel 22/32 4" Kit Gun and Joseph Wesson's Revolving Rifle. I have a Douglas Wesson 32/20 Club Gun, among others.

first-model · #23 02-01-2021, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by series guy

Just a bit of a rant here but it's disappointing that the Cabelas gun library employee gave such a low value on the gun. I purchased my 3rd Model Perfected from the Cabelas in WV a couple years ago. It was in the finest condition that I had ever seen on one of these and I called another forum member familiar with these to get his opinion. I paid $1850 for mine knowing it was at the top end of the price range but it's only the second one that I have personally seen for sale. So they would have that info in their data base. I know that it takes a decent profit to keep the doors open at a store that size but It's just a shame for someone to be that badly informed. Thank goodness the owner found the right place to get the correct information.

Cabelas is a big box store. I'm sure that there are some knowledgeable people employed by their chain, but the vast majority aren't going to know a Perfected from a hole in the wall.

I've been to the "gun library" at the local Cabelas and was pretty unimpressed. A notch better than the usual big box gun store fare, but nothing that got my pulse up.

Mike