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01-07-2021, 06:03 PM
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A newbie-type question...
Regarding antique firearms, in general: I'm told there are various classes of antiques, not to be confused with the NRA grading system (good-bad-indifferent, % of finish, etc.).
For example, a gun might be described as being "collector grade" vs. "shooter grade"... A Model 19 (no dash) N.I.B. is certainly different from one that has been carried and shot extensively. With antiques, what are the real discriminating factors? Replacement (reproduction?) parts (a hammer vs. a screw or spring) vs. "original"?
Obviously to be a shooter it needs to function mechanically (and, hopefully SAFELY as well!).
Thanks in advance for your kind consideration of this, my 1st post on this sub-forum!
Cheers!
Last edited by STORMINORMAN; 01-07-2021 at 06:04 PM.
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01-07-2021, 06:19 PM
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Absent Comrade
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Rule of thumb. Independently from it's condition, you can only consider an antique gun anything manufactured before the XXth Century
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01-07-2021, 06:37 PM
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As a suggestion, and I haven't read it for a while, but the Condition/Rating section of the SCSW does differentiate between condition definitions depending on the classification of the gun (Antique vs. the others), and if I recall correctly (and I may very well not) it breaks down newer guns in similar fashion----seems like I remember mention of pre-1920/25 items.
And if it seems as though I've used a lot of words, and said very little, it's because I have and apply my own sense of values as to what is or is not attractive/acceptable---never mind if others agree with me or not.
Ralph Tremaine
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01-07-2021, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORMINORMAN
Regarding antique firearms, in general: I'm told there are various classes of antiques, not to be confused with the NRA grading system (good-bad-indifferent, % of finish, etc.).
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Other than the BATFE's definition of an "antique firearm" ( which can be seen here), I don't know of any objective "classes" for antique guns.
Outside of make and model, condition and originality are almost always the primary drivers of value in an antique firearm. It's common knowledge among collectors that a gun in its original worn condition will generally be worth more than the same gun that has been restored. Ditto for a gun with a part that was obviously replaced.
Of course, there's plenty of exceptions to this ... but a clean, original, unmolested example in its factory box is what most collectors are after.
Mike
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01-07-2021, 06:43 PM
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As I understand it the NRA grading system is different for antique guns vs modern guns in other words an antique that graded fine on the antique scale might only grade as fair to good on the modern scale. The reason for this is the antique obviously being older is given a bit of slack due to its age. I have not looked at either scale in a while, but that was always my impression.
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01-07-2021, 06:59 PM
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I'm told that documented manufacture BEFORE January 1, 1899 qualifies a firearm as an antique.
Will research into the SCSW info: Thanks Ralph!
I do sincerely appreciate the most informative and prompt responses.
Cheers!
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01-07-2021, 07:05 PM
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I’ve always had two categories I avoid. Wall-hangers, those that look ok but can’t be shot safely and paper-weights that are just that. The only example I have now is a paperweight. Anyone care to guess what it is? A mechanical marvel in its time and probably has some stories it could tell.
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01-07-2021, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRN
I’ve always had two categories I avoid. Wall-hangers, those that look ok but can’t be shot safely and paper-weights that are just that. The only example I have now is a paperweight. Anyone care to guess what it is? A mechanical marvel in its time and probably has some stories it could tell.
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Merwin Hulbert & CO.
At least used to be.
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01-07-2021, 07:49 PM
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I’m impressed! Yep, a Merlin Hulbert. A First Model “Frontier” in 44-40. They were S&W’s biggest overseas contract competitor in the 1870-80’s. Only reason I have it is I walked into a shop I frequent, owner asked what he could do for me, I said I’d take whatever was free and he handed it to me.
Last edited by OldRN; 01-07-2021 at 07:51 PM.
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01-07-2021, 08:18 PM
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And, in the words of an ex-PDX furniture store icon, Tom Peterson...
"Free is a very good price!"
Cheers!
P.S. How the Merwin & Hulbert could have been anyone's overseas contract competitor is a mystery to me. Guess I need to investigate further?
Last edited by STORMINORMAN; 01-08-2021 at 12:19 AM.
Reason: That's "-son", son: not -sen!
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01-07-2021, 08:35 PM
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merwin
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRN
I’m impressed! Yep, a Merlin Hulbert. A First Model “Frontier” in 44-40. They were S&W’s biggest overseas contract competitor in the 1870-80’s. Only reason I have it is I walked into a shop I frequent, owner asked what he could do for me, I said I’d take whatever was free and he handed it to me.
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IMO it's more likely a Second Model Frontier Army.
Or, used to be
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01-07-2021, 08:47 PM
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Antique Parts
Well,
That's one area that seems to be zooming. Antique parts. I honestly don't know why folks think an antique gun like this Merwin has little value? It's amazing to me. FREE?
Murph
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01-07-2021, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iby
IMO it's more likely a Second Model Frontier Army.
Or, used to be
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Agree on the second model.
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01-07-2021, 10:51 PM
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As Mike said: "Outside of make and model, condition and originality are almost always the primary drivers of value in an antique firearm." I'll elaborate a bit. Rarity or scarcity of the make or model will also drive the value. A variant of a model may drive the value into the stratosphere.
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01-08-2021, 03:46 PM
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What's missing on the M&H other than the side plate and grips?
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01-08-2021, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammodave
What's missing on the M&H other than the side plate and grips?
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I’ll go with the second model opinions, I’ve never run into anyone that knew anything about them.
Besides the grips and side plate, I think the hand is missing. The cylinder spins freely since the cylinder stop does not rise up. The barrel and cylinder are well and truly worn. The springs that are there, the hammer and cylinder gate seem to work fine. The gun still breaks down with a little effort. If I knew anyone who actually liked “Old West” relics or needed a Merwin Hulbert part, I’d cheerfully give it to them.
Last edited by OldRN; 01-08-2021 at 05:37 PM.
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01-08-2021, 07:00 PM
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Years ago I wanted a 71/84 Mauser I didn't however at the time have the cash to buy a complete one. SARCO was selling parts guns from a South American stash of them so I ordered 3 (they were rough and cheap) one of them had a beautiful bore and a decent exterior. Took two stocks, and made one that was a trick found a few more parts on Fleabay it was so much fun I wound up building 3 more selling those paid for my one. These are the kind of projects I enjoy. If I had that one the hunt would be on lol...
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01-08-2021, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iby
IMO it's more likely a Second Model Frontier Army.
Or, used to be
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And here's what it once would have looked.
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01-08-2021, 09:57 PM
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Merwins were much better made guns ( Made by Hopkins & Allen ) than Colts or Smith & Wessons as the tolerances were tighter and they were very tough competitors. The posters "junk" Merwin is probaly worth a couple hundred dollars just as it sits now, for the parts that are still there. I have modified and used Merwin sideplates in the past to repair S&W Model 3s missing their side plate. Antique Merwins can hold their own in antique values in comparison with S&Ws, condition being equal. Ed
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01-08-2021, 10:09 PM
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Query - were the Merwin & Hulbert revolvers single or double action?
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Here's my sole antique left over after my 2018 fire. I paid ten bucks for it around 20 years ago. used it as a table decoration. That's what it still is but it has a new powder coated look!
Believe it or not the matching green grips are 2020 new! Some stuff is available if you know where to look or someone tells you!
Same game as long as we're here:
What do you think this "is/was"?
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01-09-2021, 01:19 AM
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Merwins
I’m partial to the Pocket Army’s as well. Very heavy revolvers with the skull crusher birds head grip! What’s not to like? They chambered 3 different 44 Calibers that included Smith & Wesson’s Russian round.
Murph
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01-09-2021, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc
Merwins were much better made guns ( Made by Hopkins & Allen ) than Colts or Smith & Wessons as the tolerances were tighter and they were very tough competitors. The posters "junk" Merwin is probaly worth a couple hundred dollars just as it sits now, for the parts that are still there. I have modified and used Merwin sideplates in the past to repair S&W Model 3s missing their side plate. Antique Merwins can hold their own in antique values in comparison with S&Ws, condition being equal. Ed
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Now you have me intrigued. Makes me think there might be someone who can use the parts. I could either give it as parts donor or use it towards funds to get a letter for my alleged post-Victory Marine contract .38
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01-09-2021, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRN
Now you have me intrigued. Makes me think there might be someone who can use the parts. I could either give it as parts donor or use it towards funds to get a letter for my alleged post-Victory Marine contract .38
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Sell it and get what you can for it. Someone out there can undoubtedly use the parts, so you'll be doing them a favor. And since you'll be enriching their collection, you may as well get some proceeds to fund your post-Victory Marine contract .38.
Mike
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01-09-2021, 04:25 PM
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merwin
The parts surely have value to the right person.
Ebay??
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