I have acquired a S&W New Model #3 that was purchased for the Revenue Cutter service. Very rare gun. Apparently the US government only purchased 140 of these for the 12 Cutters they had at the time. The Revenue Cutter of course became the Coast Guard. Mechanically it is in very good condition and I have shot it. It shoots very well indeed. The finish is really pitted. Like it spent its life in a salt water environment. The bore has pitting too. Because of it's rarity, would such a gun appeal to a Coast Guard collector? As I understand it, the exterior is more important than the interior when it comes to collecting. Up here in Canada it's value is as a shootable antique. (Antique handguns have much looser laws than modern ones. You can even carry them in the woods, which you cannot do with any modern handgun). But I feel guilty firing such a rare piece. Could anyone help with an estimated value to a collector in the US? I know that's impossible to do without pics and I havn't figured out how to do that yet. But...even a gentle nudge in the right direction would be helpful. Thanks. I'll try and figure out how to load pics.
Collin

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! I have no clue as to how to assess value for such an unusual and rare gun. But, would like the opportunity to see pictures of it. Go here for video tutorials on how to post pictures in the forum.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Try this link and I'll keep trying to post pics. I'm not very good with tech.

Link works. I didn't have time yet to watch the video, but thank you for the info. I'll get to it.

Here. Maybe this will help.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

https://i.imgur.com/0I7LfMh.jpg

Thank you sir

No problem. What leads you to believe it was in the Revenue Cutter service?

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Very historical Smith & Wesson. Do you have a letter for this one?
Also, does it have any Military markings? Anchor? Letters?
Murph

I have two different Roy Jinks letters, as well the serial number falls in those from 2 different books that id the guns purchased in 1890 for the service. I have some other provenance that came with it as well. It's definitely a Revenue Cutter Service revolver. No other markings, but it was shipped on June 27,1890 to the National Armoury in Springfield,MA. The one letter indicates that it's final destination was likely the Revenue Cutter Service.

Neat old S & W!!

Just curious - what is the 'some other provenance that came with it as well'?

And...

Was it a shipment of one? Or part of a larger Shipment?

What Finish and Stocks do the letters have listed?

The letters that I have seen and read list "Blue" finish, 6 1/2" barrel and Wood checkered grips.

The real honest issue with this gun is the present condition. It's heavily pitted all over. NO matter how you look at it that heavy pitting detracts heavily from value.

I've personally restored guns in this condition with a very slow and tedious welding process that takes oh, about 100+ hours. The only reason I did so is due to low initial purchase price and final value after completion. The math added up.

So, honestly, you have to consider the cost to restore this rare gun or except that it will not obtain maximum value in its present state.

Some collectors honestly believe that rarity is KING...but it's not.....Condition is KING...

Murph

I looked a finished auction Circa 2019
50% condition (nice) 6" barrel w/letter $4330

I myself would not feel that this Revolver should be re-done to look 'new'. I mean, it is what it is, and being what it is, it is just fine as it is!

It is honest, and real...it has no apologies to make.

It saw some neglect, dampness, got rusty, pitted, etc, got scrubbed and cleaned up along the way, and is a 'survivor'.

If it were mine, I'd be very happy and proud with it, just as it is!


Anyway, looks like Hard Rubber Stocks on the example here.

I'd be curious to know of they have scratched numerals inside which co-relate to THIS Revolver?

If so, and if they fit perfectly, then it may suggest that they are original to the Revolver, and with this, if this was a "shipment of one", then the Revolver may have shipped to an individual within the Service, rather than to have shipped per-se to The Service as such, to be IN the Service as an Issue Arm.

This was not uncommon back then...especially for Offiers who wished to own their own Side Arm.

In my "Time" USCG obtained Their weapons from other branches of service (Navy, Marine Corp). Interesting that the #3s were a direct purchase and of a caliber not used by the other services.

I have absolutely no knowledge of these guns... but I would venture that here in the US it would be worth at least $4,000. Perhaps someone with more experience and knowledge on the forum will help you out.
IMHO of course,
J

read post 13

S&W Trivia Re: US Coast Guard Model 3 revolvers. Many yrs ago when the S&WCA was in it's infancy, Roy Jinks was looking thru the shipping records for the Model 3s and noticed some entries that said shipped to " Rev . Jones , Rev. Smith, Rev. Brown. etc " or similar. He noted in an early newsletter that he had discoved a bunch of Preachers ordering S&Ws to go with their Bible thumping ! " Later it was determined by further research that the "Rev. " was an abbreviation for Revenue Cutter, the predessors of the US Coast Guard, and the name in the records for each "Rev" was the particular Cutter's name . Ed

I agree. Restoring this gun would be like smearing lipstick on the Mona Lisa.

Plus ... it's worth more as it sits now than it would be with a bunch of restoration work done to it. Any collector worth a darn would know in an instant that the gun was tinkered with, and the value would accordingly plummet.

Mike

I had an opprotunity to purchase a Revenue Cutter Service New Model 3 a few years ago.

It had been modified. Some one had cut slots in the rib to make look like a Colt Python.

I passed.

Books

There are three things which determine value. They are, in order of importance, demand, rarity, and lastly, condition.

Restorations aren't about opinion. They are about "VALUE". Many, many guns have been restored. Just like many, many, many paintings have been restored. Unfortunately, most of the time we are not able to see the "BEFORE" photo. If we were to see the BEFORE photo? The purists would be in shock. A huge percentage of the guns you see at large auction houses have been restored to some extent. Many have been professionally done and sell for a lot of money! That's called "Market Value". Folks that restore guns look at them differently. Even Books modified barrel could be restored. The question is the asking price vs. the cost and time to repair/restore the gun. Some folks actually make a living restoring guns....What should we tell them? Quit your job???

You can pull up videos of painters restoring great arts that are found heavily stained and moldy and then selling them for $50 million dollars! When looking at the restoration? It looks totally original. Some people do that with guns as well. You can't tell! So it sells for a lot of money.

If you attempt to have an open mind you can actually witness this at every single auction throughout the year. Guns that have been clearly restored and sell for a lot of money!!

Condition is KING!

Murph

Hi The letter says 6" barrell, blued finish, and hard rubber grips. Matches what the gun is. The grips are chipped on the heel. I havn't pulled them to check for markings but i'll do that this afternoon and report back. I should have said supporting info more than provenance. Some magazine articles, etc.. Not really provenance. My bad. Sorry

I should have mentioned too, that some idiot has polished the top rib of the barrel. Like they were trying to clean it up and then gave up. In my opinion that'll hurt the guns value a lot more than the pitting. Very sad.

The letter doesn't say if it was a shipment of one or a group but it does say that it was delivered to the National Armoury in Springfield, MA, so probably not a private purchase.

So I pulled the grips. The right hand grip has something scratched into it. very very light. It could match but I wouldn't swear to it.

Sadly, you're correct. This was exactly my point: that these well-intentioned efforts to "fix" the gun do irreversible damage.

I'd go a step further and argue that value is solely determined by demand, and that demand is a function of rarity and condition. There are other things that drive demand too: market trends, the media, what happens to catch one's fancy in any particular moment, etc. But all of that creates demand, which is where the market value comes from.

There's a problem with this: "market value" at any particular moment in time a poor indicator of "investment value." This hasn't been said explicitly in this thread, but I think it's why some of us chaff at the idea of restoring a gun, even if it could yield some sort of short-term dividend.

In the 1970's it was very popular to over-restore guns. I'm sure a lot of people made a lot of money doing this at the time. It has been my observation that the market is souring to these guns in favor of guns that still wear their original finish and that show their wear honestly.

There's actually a very simple reason for this: the gun will only ever have its original finish once. Once that's gone, it's irretrievably altered forever. Most people don't buy a Smith & Wesson from the 1880's to bring home a 1970's finish.

And since a finite number of guns will be made, the number of guns with their original finish will only continue to drop. As those numbers drop, rarity goes up. And that's not the only driver of value, but it's an important one.

Mike

Oh my!

The things we see sometimes...one just has to pause and wonder.."What in the blinkety-blank-heck were they thinking???"

...sigh...

Hey, it's jus' an old rickety antique pistol that ain't wuth nuttin.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

So far as I have gathered, Military of any Branch back when would sometimes Order single Revolvers or a few, for members of their Shooting Teams.

These would lack Military Markings and tend to have Hard Rubber instead of Walnut Stocks.

Just who actually owned them in practical terms is sometimes vague, and my own impression is they were likely morally owned by the individual Members to whom they were entrusted, and who knows what the Paperwork ended up saying.

Interesting gun & interesting comments. I've always been a fan of the Revenue Cutter Service New Model #3s. I've got 3-1/2 of them. The half is an RCS frame with a cylinder & barrel from a gun that was shipped to WE Petty - the first firearms instructor for the NYC Police under Commissioner Theodore Roosevelt and a target shooting champion.

My 3 complete RCS guns all have original 6" barrels. The most common barrel length for NM3's was 6.5", and I think i've seen RCS guns with 6.5" tubes, but a significant number are 6". My guess is that at least one government order specified that non-standard length.

I've never seen an RCS gun with anchors or US or any other sort of government ownership marking on it. State of Maryland NM3s have a "US" and Japanese Navy NM3s have an anchor.

One of mine has had quite a bit of custom work to targetize it - lowered rounded hammer spur, bulky adjustable sights with the rear marked RTW (anyone know who that is?) It's got checkered ivories, and is my favorite shooter. Another has an unnumbered rear latch with factory target sight on it. Since 3 of my 4 RCS guns have target modifications, presumably after they left the service, I've always wondered if maybe a group were sold in a batch to a target club or some-such, but that's just speculation. Or maybe the RCS had target competition participation?

I'm not a fan of modern restoration of old guns. Tastes vary. I like that the gun in this post shows its history.

I've also got a NM3 with the mentioned Python style slots in the barrel rib, very well done. This one has been converted into a .22 RF single shot, with the sides of the cylinder cut away so that it looks like a 2nd Model Single Shot on steroids. The work is "factory quality" but I don't think it was done at the factory.

Did i mention i like NM3's? -- Jim

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Jim Supica

The OP's gun is in near relic condition.
Any attempt to improve it other than gentle cleaning will only make it worse.
That's the hard truth of the matter.
If you want a better one, start saving up and searching

I agree.

I'd make sure the Mechanism is clean and nice fresh Lube.

Wax the exterior well, buff with a small Cotton Towel, keep it safe and dry, and be happy.

If one wants a minty Safe Queen "New Model 3", then, just as you relay - patience, persistent careful looking in the right places, and a nice bunch of Cash, can reel one in just fine.

I have often thought that .44 Russian ought to have been the Cartridge of choice for all our military back when.

How simple, easy, and sensible, that would have been, for all..!

.45 Colt was way too stout ( and would still be too stout today with the Soldiers of today ), and Colt would have been entirely happy to chamber the Model P in .44 Russian for Military contracts, if various U. S. Military had wanted both Colt and S & W Revolvers.

There was a #3 Revenue Cutter sold at a local (Iowa) gun auction maybe 5-8 years ago. (As I age time becomes more indistinct). I did not even know what the term meant so had to look it up.
The gun was in fine shape, probably 90% blue and I noticed nothing that was unusual about it, such as a vent rib or the like. It went for $3550, which shocked a lot of people, myself included. I was thinking maybe $1500 to $2000. Perhaps it wasn't such a bad deal after all.

I acquired a Smith & Wesson hand ejector .38 special model 1899/1902 Revenue Cutter revolver, they only made 50. It has a 1899 frame and 1902 barrel and locking lug and plain military walnut grips, all serial numbers match and has been lettered by Smith & Wesson. These are even more rare than the model 3 Revenue Cutter revolvers. I need to find a model 3 to go with my 1899/1902.

1890, blue finish, Revenue Service, salt water........ do the math; of course it's pitted....... if it wasn't, it probably never saw service!

One just sold this past weekend at Rock Island. It sold for $7000.00.

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Don Mundell