Model 1 1/2

Hersh328 · #1 02-06-2021, 11:59 PM

I obtained this from my step-father's estate, and I know little about it. From my web search, I believe it's a model 1 1/2, and that's it.

Obviously it's in extremely rough shape, but I was thrilled to see a Smith amongst the Iver Johnson and H&R break actions.

Any insights into this lil guy are appreciated.

lihpster · #2 02-07-2021, 12:10 AM

I'd like to see the others too, but that is a cool Smith!

Wiregrassguy · #3 02-07-2021, 12:15 AM

I don't think that is a top break 1-1/2 which is a .32 centerfire revolver. I believe you have a .38 Single Action 2nd Model. You can check this if you have a .38 S&W or .38 Special cartridge to insert into a cylinder chamber. The 2nd model was made from 1877 to 1891. Your serial number is over halfway through production but it still has the early non-fancy logo on the stocks. Someone who tracks these guns may have more specific information.

Hersh328 · #4 02-07-2021, 01:00 AM

The other revolvers I got from my step-dad over the years.

The H&R is broken down while the cylinder soaks in PB Blaster so I can try to get it loose off the rod. It worked before I took it apart, although roughly.

The safety Iver works, but the notches on the rear of the cylinder are worn so it doesn't turn reliably.

The long-barreled one I haven't touched yet, it's a rust bucket.

The Smith functions well and even in its poor condition, the function feels pretty good.

Hersh328 · #5 02-07-2021, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

I don't think that is a top break 1-1/2 which is a .32 centerfire revolver. I believe you have a .38 Single Action 2nd Model. You can check this if you have a .38 S&W or .38 Special cartridge to insert into a cylinder chamber. The 2nd model was made from 1877 to 1891. Your serial number is over halfway through production but it still has the early non-fancy logo on the stocks. Someone who tracks these guns may have more specific information.

Well sure enough, I tried a primed .38 S&W case and it fits! Thanks for the info!

lihpster · #6 02-07-2021, 04:58 AM

Cool! Thanks for showing us! We like the old ones around here. Maybe because that description fits so many of us, too.

desi2358 · #7 02-07-2021, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hersh328

The other revolvers I got from my step-dad over the years.

The H&R is broken down while the cylinder soaks in PB Blaster so I can try to get it loose off the rod. It worked before I took it apart, although roughly.

The safety Iver works, but the notches on the rear of the cylinder are worn so it doesn't turn reliably.

The long-barreled one I haven't touched yet, it's a rust bucket.

The Smith functions well and even in its poor condition, the function feels pretty good.

The H&R actually looks pretty good. Is the plating on the cylinder as good as that on the frame and barrel? The long barreled one appears to have a broken trigger return spring, fairly common on the IJ 1'st and 2'nd models. The last one may be a worn ratchet, worn hand or a weak hand spring (or all three). I collected these for a while, neat old guns with some good design features. Not all that durable though but they were very popular in their day.

Hersh328 · #8 02-07-2021, 01:51 PM

The finish on the cylinder is about the same, patchy, but there's a nice shine to it. The trigger return spring on that one had slipped off the trigger, so when I put it back together I got it set right for trigger function. The grip panel on the left side is broken into 3 pieces, so I tried to super glue it together but it didn't hold very well.

JSR III · #9 02-07-2021, 04:01 PM

Not trying to be mean here but where did you step father store these? They look like they were stored outside.

Hersh328 · #10 02-07-2021, 11:29 PM

He was pretty careful, he most likely got them in this condition.

glowe · #11 02-08-2021, 10:32 AM

Herein lies the rub with using model numbers for these old top-breaks. They are confusing and not the accepted way of identifying your gun. The nomenclature "Model 1 1/2" and "Model 2" was used for tip-up rimfires from the Civil War era. As you mention Model 1 1/2, I assume you thought you had a 32 caliber gun. The 32 Single Action was called a Model 1 1/2 and the 38 Single Action was called a Model 2 by S&W back in the days they were sold. Collectors now try to differentiate between these revolvers by not using the numbers, but rather simply call the the caliber and single action.

To complicate things, the 38 Single Action had two models, a 1st Model which was also called a Baby Russian made in 1876 to 1877, in serial number range 1 - 25,548. Changes were made and are found on your revolver which is now called 38 Single Action, 2nd Model made from 1877 to 1891. For some reason, the factory started over with serial number "1" and ran through 108,255.

Your revolver most likely dates to 1879 - 1880, which was the same year your style of stocks were replaced by the intertwined S&W logo. They are the 2nd style 38 SA stocks and were used for a very short period of time. Also, an example with serial number 60,XXX dated to 1880. I had not seen a photo of that style before and added your image to my files about S&W hard rubber stocks. The explanation of the evolution of the 38 SA stocks are below along with images.

The now familiar shape of the vintage S&W hard rubber stocks started with the 38 Single Action revolver in 1876. The 38 SA had three designs for the stocks. The first was S&W in block letters and a wide diamond and large area of checkering. The second style also had block letters, but the design below the top round looked like modern style stocks with the thinner diamond. The 2nd style were only made from 1878 to 1879 and are quite uncommon to find. Change-over to the third style intertwined S&W logo was done in 1879 and all 2nd Models after that date had the standard design that became standard on all revolvers.

Hard Rubber stocks can be repaired using Gel Super Glue or 2 part epoxy. Remember to wipe down the break edges with something like acetone to remove all oils. Set up a jig on a flat surface so that the stocks can be compressed slightly while the glue dries and put some plastic wrap under the stocks so they do not adhere to the wood. Don't overdo it with glue, just wet the 2 sided and keep them stable and pressed together.

desi2358 · #12 02-08-2021, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hersh328

The finish on the cylinder is about the same, patchy, but there's a nice shine to it. The trigger return spring on that one had slipped off the trigger, so when I put it back together I got it set right for trigger function. The grip panel on the left side is broken into 3 pieces, so I tried to super glue it together but it didn't hold very well.

The flat trigger return springs are often broken, nice that yours was just out of place. On those old hard rubber grips I've had the best results using Devcon 5 minute epoxy to rejoin and repair them. I usually drill a couple small holes in joining surfaces so they get a better grip. Also use a couple drops of Testors black model paint mixed into the glue to match the color. I've been able to repair a number of them that way.

Six6 · #13 02-09-2021, 12:24 AM

I just acquired a series 1, 1 1/2.....will post when it arrives!

glowe · #14 02-09-2021, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six6

I just acquired a series 1, 1 1/2.....will post when it arrives!

See what I mean!!!!

JSR III · #15 02-09-2021, 10:23 AM

Gary, great explanation and photos of the hard rubber stock timeline. I have added this post to my S&W file for future reference. As always, your knowledge and explanations make coming here to learn a joy. Thanks again.

Hersh328 · #16 02-09-2021, 08:04 PM

Thanks for the detailed information, Gary! I love the knowledge that exists here.

Six6 · #17 02-10-2021, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

See what I mean!!!!

Gary, am I incorrect? Model 1 1/2, series 1 32 short, tip up. Don’t have the serial # yet, but should be below 26,000

glowe · #18 02-10-2021, 12:19 PM

OK, you are kind of using part of the standard collector name for a 32 tip-up. There was a Model 1 1/2, 1st Issue in 32 rimfire. They had a square butt and the cylinder was smooth with no flutes. The confusion comes with that fact that back in the day, the factory used the same name for their 32 Single Action in 32 centerfire top-break.

Also, it is always best to start a new thread when discussing a different revolver. Can confuse readers of the thread and posts can get mixed up.