Perfected 38 S&W—Update

CB3 · #1 02-22-2021, 08:44 PM

****I received my SWHF letter about this .38 double action perfected model. It was shipped from the factory June 10, 1910 and delivered to H. & D. Folsom Company, New York City. Shipped with 4 inch barrel and checkered black hard rubber stocks. It was part of a large shipment to a major distributor. As I suspected, the large target style wood stocks are likely aftermarket additions. There is just a little holster wear on the barrel and cylinder. It is an excellent shooter with .38 S&W ammo, which is hard to find, any time.

The letter seems to give some credence to the story behind the double latch system.

Next I will contact Mr. Vivas to see if family history is correct about an officer named Kowalski possessing this gun on the NYPD.

Thanks all. CB3****

Possible to get date for manf/ship of a blued Perfected Model serial #4355?

Thanks in advance. CB3

glowe · #2 02-22-2021, 08:52 PM

With that early serial number, it is most likely a first or second year manufacture - 1909 or 1910. Ship date is what is used for S&Ws and collectors and I have a 5029 example that did not leave the factory until 1911. Seems that the factory did not ship in serial number order.

Dosgatos · #3 02-23-2021, 01:42 PM

As Gary says, they were not shipped in order. On the other hand you can get a general idea of age from the number. My #3946 shipped in June of 1909, so I would agree with Gary's estimate.

ol777gunnerz · #4 02-23-2021, 02:15 PM

Join the S&WCA and you can have it looked up for the exact month & year, no charge, just one of the many benefits members have.

CB3 · #5 02-23-2021, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol777gunnerz

Join the S&WCA and you can have it looked up for the exact month & year, no charge, just one of the many benefits members have.

Thank you. I did not know that. I have written Mr. Jinks for the letter, and armed with that I intend to go to Mr. Vilas since I have info that this gun belonged to an NYPD officer. This gun is worth the small charges to join such groups.

mrcvs · #6 02-23-2021, 07:02 PM

FWIW, and as you already know, Smith & Wesson did not ship sequentially, but I have 2 of these, both with factory letters, and one shipped on 12 February 1913, serial number 6559, and the other, with serial number 9924, shipped on 01 April 1922.

The first one is neat because it shipped to Portland, Maine. The second one is neat because it shipped to an individual, W S Maxwell, of Coffeyville, Kansas.

StrawHat · #7 02-23-2021, 09:00 PM

Anyone have a photo?

Kevin

CB3 · #8 02-23-2021, 10:30 PM

My early Perfected next to my wife’s 642 for size comparison.

mrcvs · #9 02-24-2021, 05:37 AM

Wow, it must have been a long day yesterday. The information provided in my post, above was for two Third Model Perfected SINGLE SHOT pistols in .22 cal.

StrawHat · #10 02-24-2021, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB3

My early Perfected next to my wife’s 642 for size comparison.

Thank you. So, I am guessing an I frame? But here is where my knowledge fails me. A top break, obviously, but with a cylinder release? I am out of my ken, please explain this to me.

Kevin

Old_Cop · #11 02-24-2021, 08:20 AM

Both the top lock and the cylinder release must be pressed at the same time. The reason being that the revolver could or might be disabled by a bad guy grabbing the barrel and flipping the lock. Similar to the Berretta 92 slide strip.

Not an I frame I don't think as it is a top break.

glowe · #12 02-24-2021, 10:10 AM

Actually it is the I frame mechanism. The 38 Perfected used the Model 1903 frame and mechanism and the only difference was that the frame was modified by adding a hinge to the front of the frame to accept the 38 Double Action barrel assembly. The also modified the top strap for the top latch lock. All internal parts are 1903 and totally interchangeable with 32 HEs. The factory even used the post 1914 hammer block engineering change on the last couple thousand Perfected revolvers made.

CB3 · #13 02-24-2021, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrawHat

Thank you. So, I am guessing an I frame? But here is where my knowledge fails me. A top break, obviously, but with a cylinder release? I am out of my ken, please explain this to me.

Kevin

The Perfected model included a thumb latch release in addition to the top latch. This double mechanism was supposed to provide more safety for officers using the gun. There apparently was a request from an officer who had his gun unlatched by a bad guy and made it inoperable. It is an I-frame. Produced 1909-1920 in blue and I believe nickel. .38 S&W caliber.

The last patent date on the barrel was Feb 6 06, and that same date is on the interior rebound slide.

glowe · #14 02-24-2021, 11:03 AM

Never found any documentation supporting the police request for this revolver and there is another story out there as to why the gun was developed. With the advent of smokeless powders, the 38 Perfected was designed to be a much stronger action than the older top-latch only guns. Supposedly appealing to the old style gun buyers who liked top-break revolvers but were concerned about the strength of the single latch guns

There were three different patent dates on the barrels of the 38 Perfected. The first was the Feb 6 1906 patent that appeared on both the 1903 and Perfected ran until around 7,000 on the 38 Perfected until it was replaced on both models by a Sept 14, 1909 date. Around 57,000 the hammer block safety patent was added to the barrels, Dec. 29, 1914.

Club Gun Fan · #15 02-24-2021, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

Never found any documentation supporting the police request for this revolver and there is another story out there as to why the gun was developed. With the advent of smokeless powders, the 38 Perfected was designed to be a much stronger action than the older top-latch only guns. Supposedly appealing to the old style gun buyers who liked top-break revolvers but were concerned about the strength of the single latch guns

There were three different patent dates on the barrels of the 38 Perfected. The first was the Feb 6 1906 patent that appeared on both the 1903 and Perfected ran until around 7,000 on the 38 Perfected until it was replaced on both models by a Sept 14, 1909 date. Around 57,000 the hammer block safety patent was added to the barrels, Dec. 29, 1914.

The police store is true.

StrawHat · #16 02-24-2021, 06:49 PM

Each day on this forum, I learn something. Thank you all. Keep bringing the knowledge.

Kevin