How to lighten trigger pull on Russian model 3

Helipat13 · #1 02-27-2021, 05:57 PM

Dear Friend

Please i need advice ...

On my S&W .44 russian Model 3 1877 Mfg

My trigger pull is to heavy weight : 9,7 pound // 4,4 Kg .

I cannot found any aftermarket spring kit

So , 2 options :
- modify the spring ...make less strong . or
- file a positif angle on Trigger .

Any comments are welcome .
Thanks a lot

Patrick

BMur · #2 02-27-2021, 07:24 PM

Patrick,
These Antiques , if they have all original parts, have a very stiff main spring by design. Which translates to a heavy trigger pull.

There is no reason for this heavy trigger pull in the modern world with modern primers, etc. Back in the day the older primers required a very hard strike or you would get a miss-fire. Primer improvements were gradual and optimum by the 1890's. So, Softer main springs and smoother actions also developed during that same time frame.

There is no reason in my mind why you can't purchase a modern progressive main spring for this Antique. They are much softer and still strike the primer with more than enough force to set it off. I have made my own springs but purchasing them is also an option.

The result is a much smoother action and an amazing improvement in trigger pull. All of my target shooters have modified main springs. I like a hair trigger. You can stow your original main spring so as to keep all the original parts.

Never mess with the sear or hammer unless you absolutely have to. Always replace springs first!

Again, the results are amazing. It will improve your performance on target also.

See photo's of original SAA main spring and a kit that is sold for about $20 that contains "Progressive type springs"...The difference is amazing.

Murph

gmborkovic · #3 02-27-2021, 07:52 PM

Mr. Patrick, why are you concerned about a heavy trigger on such a beauty? Just leave it alone. They had hard primers back in the day.

Heinz · #4 02-27-2021, 07:56 PM

Ivan would say "Russian triggers not for little American girly men"

mmaher94087 · #5 02-27-2021, 08:05 PM

Patrick,
By chance, has the mainspring been replaced? I had a New Model #3 revolver that had a mainspring made from "flying wire" (the 'X' wire from an old biplane wing). It was twice the thickness of an original spring and the trigger pull was horrendous.

Oldmanwesson · #6 02-27-2021, 11:04 PM

I agree with Murph. Doing anything permanent ( like filing) to the sear or the hammer should be absolute last resort. I would try a new spring first. Another option which would not damage the original configuration would be to soft-solder a very small piece of brass onto the hammer, right behind the notch where the trigger would catch and then progressively filing it down until you get the right amount of pull. If this does not work, you can gently heat up the hammer again and remove the brass and the solder. That way you are not damaging the hammer and not ruining the temper on the steel. Just a thought. The brass won't last forever, but you should get a few years of use out of it. My Model 3's all have a reasonable trigger pull and I have not had to resort to any "modifications".

Helipat13 · #7 02-28-2021, 02:22 PM

Thank you my friends for your comments.

My main spring is original. a very rigid main spring.

I understand and agree with you: I will not touch the Hammer & Trigger sear!

I want to replace the spring, but the problem is:
I have not found any reduced power main spring on the Internet for the S&W Model 3.

Wollf Spring does not manufacture this model

So the question is: where to find it ? If you have any link please let me know.

My only option today is to try and order a spare part for the Russian Uberti Model 3.
(if identical dimension?)

Thanks a lot for your answers

Helipat13 · #8 02-28-2021, 05:02 PM

Hi
Stiff main spring installed on my model 3

4 inches lenght
3,1 mm // 0.12 inches thick

BMur · #9 02-28-2021, 05:54 PM

Patrick,
I think a Uberti spring might do the trick. It’s modern and would definitely have an engineered reduction in tension.
You could also modify the Uberti spring to a progressive type spring. It’s not difficult.

Murph

Jim Watson · #10 02-28-2021, 06:05 PM

At US price of $21 I would try the Uberti mainspring in a S&W.
If it fit, it could be narrowed or thinned without altering the revolver

glowe · #11 03-01-2021, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdgeargrndrr

. . . 4.5kg pull is not bad. A stock Ruger here in the USA has a 6.3kg pull from the factory.

Have to ask about that. 4.5KG is 10 pounds and 6.3KG is 14 pound pull, both seem very high?? We are talking about a single-action S&W and should have no more than half that when cocked and set to fire?? What should a single-action at full cock run??

For me, the problem is that these old hoglegs take a stout spring in order to reliable fire every time the trigger is pulled. If the hammer is piercing the primer, obviously too high, but if one randomly lightens the spring, it may not be strong enough to fire at 100% reliability.

Anatolian · #12 03-07-2021, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMur

Patrick,
These Antiques , if they have all original parts, have a very stiff main spring by design. Which translates to a heavy trigger pull.

There is no reason for this heavy trigger pull in the modern world with modern primers, etc. Back in the day the older primers required a very hard strike or you would get a miss-fire. Primer improvements were gradual and optimum by the 1890's. So, Softer main springs and smoother actions also developed during that same time frame.

There is no reason in my mind why you can't purchase a modern progressive main spring for this Antique. They are much softer and still strike the primer with more than enough force to set it off. I have made my own springs but purchasing them is also an option.

The result is a much smoother action and an amazing improvement in trigger pull. All of my target shooters have modified main springs. I like a hair trigger. You can stow your original main spring so as to keep all the original parts.

Never mess with the sear or hammer unless you absolutely have to. Always replace springs first!

Again, the results are amazing. It will improve your performance on target also.

See photo's of original SAA main spring and a kit that is sold for about $20 that contains "Progressive type springs"...The difference is amazing.

Murph

With regards to your reply, does the kit you are suggesting actually fit a New Mod. Nos.3. If so, where can it be obtained. Thanks in advance for any reply>

gnystrom · #13 03-07-2021, 01:14 PM

The best way is to strengthen your trigger finger.
I would most definitely leave the trigger alone.

deadin · #14 03-07-2021, 05:22 PM

Quote:

When shooting it would not be bad as you can “stage the trigger”

Just out of curiosity, how do you "stage the trigger" on a single action?
To me staging the trigger is for a DA where the first stage turns and locks the cylinder and cocks the hammer to just shy of the release point. The second stage releases the hammer.
If there is any "take-up" in a single stage trigger, I would suspect there's something wrong in the mechanism.

BMur · #15 03-07-2021, 11:12 PM

Anatolian,

I’m not aware of a spring kit for the NM3.
See photo 1 of antique springs.
These are original Smith and Wesson springs. Notice no two are alike? Different arches, lengths, etc?
Early main springs were hand fit.

Even kit springs often require fitting and adjustment. Especially when installed in an antique firearm.
Modern guns are actually much easier to repair with modern parts.
Installing a replacement spring in an antique often requires fitting and milling for the action to function as desired.

Notice my 3rd photo of original antique SAA main springs next to the thin modern progressive spring? Huge difference in design.

Photo 4 Is a NM3 spring next to an N frame modern spring. The only basic difference is the overall length of the spring in this case.

So, what I’m getting at is you’d be extremely lucky to find a modern spring that swaps with an antique spring without fitting it to the gun!

A reproduction Uberti NM3 type spring might work but I’ve never tried one. I generally make my own springs out of modern progressive spring material and fit them “ ONLY” to my shooter grade guns. I never shoot high dollar minty antiques. Value loss would be the result.

Murph

Helipat13 · #16 03-13-2021, 12:38 PM

Dear

Unfortunately the Uberti replica model 3 main spring does not match ... 1 cm shorter .

I shoud modify for extension .

BMur · #17 03-13-2021, 01:50 PM

Patrick,
I just spent less than 5 mins on the Uberti website and found a new modern progressive main spring set that they are offering to improve the action on their "clone" SAA's.

They also have springs for the old model Russian and Schofield "clones" as well. So, I have no idea what spring you photo'd? but you have many other options. No need to modify a replacement spring.

Their springs are modern and very cheap. The complete kits are $15 U.S. It doesn't get cheaper than that! It takes me about 30 mins to make a spring so it's not worth it. Buy another one!!!!!!

Plus, you are in Europe....Uberti is also? So, springs should be "REALLY" Cheap and readily available to you!! You could probably drive to their business. Come on now!

Probably why you got that replacement spring so quickly.

Murph

BMur · #18 03-13-2021, 02:24 PM

Patrick,
Just out of curiosity I did a Google search on Uberti's location. They have a factory in the small town of Gardone which is part of the City of Brescia, Italy.

A simple map search reveals that it's a 9 hour drive from Paris, France to the Uberti factory.

Why not just drive there and visit their factory????? I've driven to Las Vegas many times and that's 8 1/2 hours from where I live....Sounds like a fun trip. You could post photo's for the forum...I'd love to see their factory.

Murph

Helipat13 · #19 03-13-2021, 03:37 PM

Murph

I was thinking like you and I ordered one from Uberti
But bad luke Uberti springs are shorter.
See picture.

I will try to solder an extension

I living close to Marseille , Brescia is near , 6 hours drive , but border are close due to COVID19 épidémie . there is no fun for the moment .

Take care
Patrick

BMur · #20 03-13-2021, 10:30 PM

Patrick,
Modern progressive spring steel does not appreciate heat from a torch or a soldering iron but hey? What do I know. Have fun!

Murph

3rdgeargrndrr · #21 03-17-2021, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdgeargrndrr

I agree, DO NOT alter the sear surface.
You could possibly put a very small bend in the spring.
This is the design and quirks of the gun. When shooting it would not be bad as you can “stage the trigger” a little better. I would say practice more and leave the gun alone.
4.5kg pull is not bad. A stock Ruger here in the USA has a 6.3kg pull from the factory.

Thank you for bringing up my error. I was referring to double action pull weights , not the model 3. I have since deleted my original fake news post. My apologies