Old S&W Cartridge Box

Eric300 · #1 03-02-2021, 03:38 PM

I don't know how old this is, or if it's worth a whole lot if anything at all, but figured I just throw it out there and see what y'all can come up with.

Don't know if this S&W tip-up goes with the cartridge box or not

Club Gun Fan · #2 03-02-2021, 03:41 PM

It is an early 1900's box. It's not in the best condition, but, it is collectable. I would suggest wrapping it up in plastic and putting it away.

iby · #3 03-02-2021, 04:14 PM

They go together well.

Eric300 · #4 03-02-2021, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan

It is an early 1900's box. It's not in the best condition, but, it is collectable. I would suggest wrapping it up in plastic and putting it away.

I appreciate the info. Like, just HOW collectable is it? I don't think I'll get rich if I sold it. Besides, if I wrap it up and stash it some where, I won't be able to enjoy looking at it. It's pretty safe where I keep it now.

Club Gun Fan · #5 03-02-2021, 04:34 PM

Like anything, condition is the key. I'd call it fair. Probably $100.00. If it was mint, maybe $500.00. What I meant by wrapping it up in plastic, was seal it in clear plastic to protect it. These boxes are all wrapped up in plastic to preserve them.

first-model · #6 03-02-2021, 06:04 PM

It's a US Cartridge Company box. Collectible, but as others have noted, it's not the holy grail of old ammo box collecting. Still a nice piece.

Be careful if you wrap it in plastic, though. Some plastics are safe for archival use. Others will actually speed up the decomposition of the item. And scotch tape is never a safe thing to use on old boxes.

Mike

glowe · #7 03-02-2021, 06:31 PM

For protection from dust dirt and humidity, I agree with wrapping it. I used to use shrink wrap, but now just use Plastic food wrap, it is light weight, easy to wrap just like a present ad scotch tape on the bottom. You will still be able to view it just fine.

Old S&W Cartridge Box-p1170009-jpg

Eric300 · #8 03-02-2021, 08:38 PM

Gotcha. I took your advice and wrapped it in Saran Wrap. I also wrapped this .303 Winchester box (Full!). I have a few old .22 rimfire boxes, but I'm too lazy to do each one of those.

Thanks for the info!

desi2358 · #9 03-03-2021, 09:50 AM

That Winchester box is nice. I like your little 22 group, I collect mainly 22 boxes myself. The Peters box is the oldest you have in that group. I can see the Cincinnati address on the front of it which puts it before Dupont acquired the company and combined it with Remington. Next oldest would be the Wards and Western boxes.

BMur · #10 03-03-2021, 01:06 PM

Nice picture box.

If you want a more accurate date of manufacture( DOM) ?
Please post photos of the ammo that includes clear photos of the rounds and head stamp markings. Unless the box is MT?

Head stamps are well documented by collectors. Also, cartridge manufacturers were pretty keen on picturing a current firearm on the box. That’s a 2nd model 38 Topbreak so this is likely a 19th century box.

After 1900 date codes and patents helped to date boxes. They were actually quite often stamped with a date. See photos.

Murph

Eric300 · #11 03-03-2021, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desi2358

That Winchester box is nice. I like your little 22 group, I collect mainly 22 boxes myself. The Peters box is the oldest you have in that group. I can see the Cincinnati address on the front of it which puts it before Dupont acquired the company and combined it with Remington. Next oldest would be the Wards and Western boxes.

Thanks for the info. It is much appreciated! Since you seem to have a good knowledge of .22 boxes, maybe you could tell me something about this one. I've never seen another one packaged quite like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMur

Nice picture box.

If you want a more accurate date of manufacture( DOM) ?
Please post photos of the ammo that includes clear photos of the rounds and head stamp markings. Unless the box is MT?

Head stamps are well documented by collectors. Also, cartridge manufacturers were pretty keen on picturing a current firearm on the box. That’s a 2nd model 38 Topbreak so this is likely a 19th century box.

After 1900 date codes and patents helped to date boxes. They were actually quite often stamped with a date. See photos.

Murph

Thank you, Murph. Unfortunately, the old S&W cartridge box is empty.

I appreciate the information that you provided. It definitely helps!

Eric

glowe · #12 03-03-2021, 05:22 PM

My oldest 22 boxes are before that caliber was even named. Not sure when the first 22 labeled box came out? Early No. 1 boxes were 100 rounds per of 22 Shorts.

first-model · #13 03-04-2021, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

My oldest 22 boxes are before that caliber was even named. Not sure when the first 22 labeled box came out? Early No. 1 boxes were 100 rounds per of 22 Shorts.

Actually, Gary, the name of the cartridge is right on the box. These are "No. 1" cartridges. :-)

My observation is that most of these really early cartridge names simply referred to the gun that was chambered to fire them. Sharps' Rifle cartridges, Smith & Wesson Number 1 cartridges, etc. I don't think the cartridge nomenclature really started to develop until the late 1860's and the 1870's, after the Rollin White patent had expired and cartridges were becoming far more ubiquitous.

Mike

glowe · #14 03-04-2021, 12:00 PM

Yes, I knew that the cartridge was named the No. 1, just as the early 32 Rimfire cartridges were named No. 2 - see Don's post #5 images. Thanks for narrowing the timeframe that ".22" was used on boxes. I assume that it is safe to say my boxes date to the early 1870s, some 150 years ago. That date estimate nicely fits the US Cartridge Company founding in 1869.

singleshot1891 · #15 03-04-2021, 12:26 PM

The Peters Thunderbolt box you inquired about is from the mid-50's. These "Chicklet" boxes, as they are known by collectors, held 28 rounds. Why the odd number of rounds, I do not know. At the same time the Remington offering was called Rocket.

WB

BMur · #16 03-04-2021, 12:50 PM

I believe that Montgomery Wards box of .22 Ammo dates to the early 1930’s.
I remember as a kid Taking the city bus( for a nickel) and buying my .22 Ammo from Sears (for my single shot Savage rifle) in downtown San Francisco! Carrying it home in a brown paper bag on the Bus!!
I can only imagine what they’d do to me now.

Murph

desi2358 · #17 03-04-2021, 02:24 PM

[QUOTE=Eric300;141082444]Thanks for the info. It is much appreciated! Since you seem to have a good knowledge of .22 boxes, maybe you could tell me something about this one. I've never seen another one packaged quite like it.

If my memory is right that was a marketing idea brought out in the 1950's by the parent corporation Remington. It was a handy little pocket pack of 22 Shorts. They made them with both the Peters and Remington labels. Somewhere in my collection I have a couple of the Remington packs and the (now empty) overpack box they came in. Don't have the Peters version, really need to pick one up to go with the Remington ones I have.

Eric300 · #18 03-04-2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singleshot1891

The Peters Thunderbolt box you inquired about is from the mid-50's. These "Chicklet" boxes, as they are known by collectors, held 28 rounds. Why the odd number of rounds, I do not know. At the same time the Remington offering was called Rocket.

WB

Thanks for info! It always did remind me of the old 'Chicklet' boxes. lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMur

I believe that Montgomery Wards box of .22 Ammo dates to the early 1930’s.
I remember as a kid Taking the city bus( for a nickel) and buying my .22 Ammo from Sears (for my single shot Savage rifle) in downtown San Francisco! Carrying it home in a brown paper bag on the Bus!!
I can only imagine what they’d do to me now.

Murph

Wow. I didn't think it was that old! Good to know. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by desi2358

If my memory is right that was a marketing idea brought out in the 1950's by the parent corporation Remington. It was a handy little pocket pack of 22 Shorts. They made them with both the Peters and Remington labels. Somewhere in my collection I have a couple of the Remington packs and the (now empty) overpack box they came in. Don't have the Peters version, really need to pick one up to go with the Remington ones I have.

Interesting......makes sense. I wish that box was in a little better condition, but at least it's intact. A little deterioration of the cellophane wrapper, and a small 'crush' spot on the box. Not bad for how old it is. Thanks again for all of the excellent info!

Eric

handejector · #19 03-08-2021, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric300

Thanks for the info. It is much appreciated! Since you seem to have a good knowledge of .22 boxes, maybe you could tell me something about this one. I've never seen another one packaged quite like it.

I have heard those referred to as "The Chiclets Box".

From this-

Old S&W Cartridge Box-4287706480_49900a79fd_b-jpg