Any thoughts on the New Model #3s that were contracted to the Japanese government? They have longer cylinders that i believe were converted from .44-40 Frontiers. Do they hold their value comparatively to other New Model #3s or perhaps more or less?

There were many thousands of NM 3's shipped to Japan starting near the beginning of production.
The ones you reference were converted from the unpopular 44/40's near the end of production IIRC.
Values tend to favor condition more than anything else.IMO
I like pictures
Mike

This subject has always been of interest to me. “ Converted 44/40 Frontiers”??

2072 New Model 3 SA Frontiers were manufactured? That’s what is listed! Multiple sources of research list 786 being “converted” to 44 Russian and sold to the Japanese in 1895?

I believe they were using the long 1 9/16th cylinder in all Model 3 frames by 1895. That may also represent the pivotal change for the 1st Model double action(NAVY) in 44 Russian caliber.

What the “ Conversion” term to me suggests is that 786 Frontiers were already assembled and on the shelf which would require that all 786 cylinders be replaced with 44 Russian cylinders. Each cylinder sold for $2 wholesale! That’s a lot of money in 1895!!

You can’t convert 44/40 to 44 Russian. Can’t make a bigger hole smaller. The bores would also require a minor milling adjustment to .429 vs .427 Groove diameter.

I think they were just never assembled and the production was simply altered to 44 Russian. Otherwise, that would have been one very costly conversion!

Something has to exist in it’s entirety before it can be converted in my view.

Murph

Well said Murph!

Murph.
I have seen many post 1895 #3's with the shorter frame and cyl.
I have 2 such 1897/1900 shipped.
The long cyl required a longer frame.

Thanks iby,
So much for that theory. Actually, it’s still very possible. Remember that all frames were supposed to have been made Pre-1898. Introducing a specific feature or halting production of an earlier design does not Always represent the elimination of production of same. Short frames and Parts would have been used until Exhausted.
That’s mainly why I do not believe the Frontiers were converted after assembled. There isn’t much you can do with a 1 9/16” cylinder machined to a bottleneck 44/40 caliber. All the listed calibers that were available to the NM3 frame could not be converted from a 44/40 cylinder. You would think that the machinists would know that before they spent weeks turning out 786 cylinders? Valued at $1,572.00 in 1895 money. Who knows what that amounts to today but figuring an average value of a large caliber revolver cylinder today at $150? That would be a total loss of $117,900 in today’s dollars! That’s hard to swallow!

The historical difference is actual production. If we eliminate this “ Conversion” theory? Then only 1286 S&W 44 Frontier SA’s were manufactured! From a value standpoint? I like that number a lot more!! It also eliminates the confusion regarding production. What should be stated in my view is that a total of 1286 were produced until production was halted. The remaining frames were then used to Supply the Japanese and chambered in 44 Russian...."NO HARM DONE".

Murph