I was doing some research on the rare .320 Revolving Rifle and stumbled on this article. Thought I'd share it.

Of the 977 Revolving Rifles manufactured the last 17 were actually made(assembled?) from 1881-1887. This one is serial number 974 which is one of the last 4 made. What is interesting is that it has a 9" barrel??? and it looks totally factory to me. The backstrap has no cut out's for the rifle stock. Notice that the forearm is custom also but the barrel address is "not" centered! So, this is a very odd one in my opinion. Designed to be shot one handed and with a custom 9" barrel length! This might have been the motivating factor for the earliest New Model Target Revolvers to be chambered in the Revolving rifle cartridge?

This very gun was used by a Target shooter during competition in 1889 in which he won the contest and went on to the Olympics and won both a Silver and Gold Metal in the 50 yard shooting events. The gentleman's name was P.J. Dolfen.

Just when you thought you've seen it all something like this shows up. Hard to believe the factory would not have centered that barrel address though but I think all the parts for these guns were already manufactured by 1881. The gun is all matching as claimed in an old auction listing.

Murph

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I wish that there were more photos. There are too many unanswered questions. I'd like to see the butt serial number and the latch number. I'm leaning toward a gunsmith special rather than anything the factory would produce. I think the barrel is cut from a 16" (off center address starts 1" back from the muzzle) and was milled for the inserted and pinned front sight. S&W factory would have the roll dies for the address and would have centered it. I also think there is a threaded hole on the under side of the barrel where the screw for the original length fore end would attach. Is the butt serial number off center to allow space for milling the shoulder stock slots? It doesn't appear to have the hole in the backstrap for the upper attaching iron of the stock. I would like to hold this one in my hands.

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Mike Maher #283

9" Smith & Wesson S&W Model 320 Revolving Rifle, 1889 Conlin's Shooting Gallery Prize Awarded to P.J. Dolfen | Lock, Stock & Barrel


Mike,
Here is the link to the original article. I hope I did that right? You will notice in the article that they claim the number (974) is found all over the gun. You have to admit...It's very unique and the workmanship is very "factory like"....Including the perfect fitting grips and front forearm. Tone of finish...Like you, I would like to hold it as well. I'd like to see the muzzle crown and look closer at the barrel.

What is a strong indicator that it's original though is the late serial number. Mr. Jinks notes in his book that the late guns were "spare parts"....anything is possible when a model isn't selling. Plus it's also documented that this was the year (1887) that Smith and Wesson "began" using a more open minded approach to "special orders". The article also "claims" that the barrel number matches...
One last comment on the barrel address? Since the Revolving rifle is listed as manufactured for actually two years. 1879-1880....960 of them were actually produced. From 1881-1887 there were 17 "ASSEMBLED" from remaining parts. It's very possible in my opinion that the roll die no longer existed when this gun was "special ordered" in 1887....that would be 6 years after the guns parts were made and sales were very poor. I personally can see the factory dumping that die!!

Murph

Peter J Dolfen , Olympic medalist, was born in 1879. I doubt that he won that revolver at age 10.

That's a Great Catch. I found some information that he was born in May of 1880. Which would have made him 9 years old in 1889.

Obviously those date markings on the back of the gun are not correct. Wouldn't be the first time. The side plate markings however suggest that the gun was part of the general club membership and not owned by any one individual. I think this gun screams "I need a factory letter"!

Here is a photo of the 1912 Olympic shooting team that included Mr. Dolfen.


Murph

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This Revolving Rifle falls in the "It's Possible" category. According to Roy Jinks and without a 'letter' request, the shipping records show 974 and 973 as "Special" on the books and there is no barrel length specified for either. A Letter request search may find the original invoice and verify this piece. Either way, I agree that a Letter is needed.

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Mike Maher #283

I honestly don't understand why these major auction houses don't develop a rapport with the Historical Department? They have the money, they have the volume of antique guns, why not spend a little extra to get a "Bat phone" connection to the historical department? I mean to me it's a no brainer? Why not have some inside scoop on an "EXTREMLY RARE" piece like this one just might be? Without the historical letter as compared to with the historical letter? The value difference is significant! Boneheads!


Murph

Schroedinger's Cat.

Books

The barrel was clearly cut; the off-center roll stamp indicates that. Whether or not that happened at the factory or after-the-fact is anyone's guess, but there's absolutely no way to know just by looking at the gun. Ditto for the trigger guard; whether that was a factory-fitting of a spurred trigger guard or a gunsmith's special isn't something we'll answer just by looking at it.

Contrary to the myths being propounded here, the factory was generally good about holding onto its tooling. Many of us have 19th and 20th century Smith & Wesson factory tooling in our collections, and that couldn't have happened if the factory was actively in the business of disposing of tooling.

That said, I agree that this gun would benefit from a factory letter. The fact that it's in a strange configuration doesn't mean that it didn't leave the factory this way—especially if it came that late in the Revolving Rifle's production. Having gone to an Olympic shooter, there is a good chance that at least a few higher-end gunsmiths have had their hands on this gun ... so anything is possible.

By the way, Smith & Wesson doesn't have a "historical department." The Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation is a separate and distinct organization. Auction houses can submit factory letter requests to the S&WHF like the rest of us, and I understand that they often do.

Mike

We do have auction houses contact us for letters. We do them as we receive them along with everyone else. We do not put them ahead of anyone. It's not fair and frankly, I don't think you'd like it if we put your letter aside to do 25 or 30 letters from an auction house. I have had them ask if they paid more, would we do their letters first, I've flatly refused.

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Don Mundell

Don,
I appreciate what you are saying. The world is full of people with a lot of money or "Status" that somehow get the "front of the line Privilege"? How many times have I experienced it personally in my life? Countless!

It's not something that I support...It's just the way it is. The news is full of it!

Mike Maher somehow communicated with Roy Jinks very quickly and found out that the factory records list this serial number as "SPECIAL" in the records.

That's my point! RESEARCH was ignored on this one. It's beyond stupid.

As a collector you have to ask yourself a simple question: "HOW MUCH IS A FACTORY SHORT BARREL REVOLVING RIFLE WORTH"??? I keep coming up with the same answer...... "ALOT"!!!

I wish I had seen it!!!


Murph

I don't think the auction house that sold this Revolving Rifle wanted to pay for research. Had they paid, they would have found that this prize was won by Peter J Dolphin, not P. J. Dolphen. In their ad, they show pictures from "Bullet Holes", but they don't show the description about P J Dolphen. I have his 1902 .38 M&P Target revolver and his Stevens cut down .22 Rifle described in "Bullet Holes". How could he have won the rifle in 1899 when he didn't start shooting until 1908, 10 years later! Here is a partial description from his bio. in "Bullet Holes" "P. J. Dolphen of Springfield , Mass blew into the club house one winter's night in 1908 with a quiet smile and .22 single-shot rifle sawed down to a 10-inch barrel and a homemade pistol stock and asked if he could try pistol shooting. He could, and did. He nailed the grand prize in Match A indoor in 1913, shot with the Springfield Leagued team from the beginning securing high average for the season in 1913, and shot on the American team in Stockholm-but not with his sawed off rifle-oh no! He shoots the S. & W. from soup to nuts" The information from my Club Gun serial number 029 was "delivered to Pete Dolphin January 1, 1900. It was returned later and given to Mr. Harris on January 25, 1905. It was returned again and delivered to P. J. Dolphen on July 1, 1910". I contend Peter J. Dolphin and P . J. Dolphen are two different people. Would I like to own that Revolving Rifle, you bet.

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Don Mundell

Bingo!

If what’s in the letter potentially that important to an auction house, they can wait 8 -12 weeks for the letter to arrive, and THEN determine how they want to promote a particular firearm. And maybe it doesn’t pan out for them as they expected, in the end (or maybe it does!). IMHO.

Greetings. What is the purpose of the finger grip coming off the trigger guard. I have a S&W Russian with the same guard. Bob

I agree the barrel was probably cut down, and since it might be a factory "parts gun" it's possible a rifle barrel/cylinder assembly was mated to a pistol frame.
Is that the correct front sight?
Every top-break I've seen has the half-moon style, but I have no experrience with the revolving rifles.

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Richard

This was brought up by member SWSC from a previous thread in 2017. Another "Great catch"!!


S&W made 977, 320 RR (in barrel lengths of 16", 18", & 20"). Serial numbers 973 & 974 were specially made for M. W. Robinson Co., NY, NY (Smith & Wessons largest distributer). These guns were special order 320 RR pistols with 9" barrels (note: no slot cut for shoulder stock). They were shipped to Robinson December 16, 1886, New York City. Only one, #974, which I own, has ever surfaced. This gun was used by all the participants at the 1889 match held at Conlin's Gallery in New York City. The gun is inscribed (P.J.D. New York 1889, refers to, Peter James Dolfen, who would later go on to medal at the 1912 Olympics as a revolver shooter (Men's Free Pistol at 50 meters-silver and Team Men's Free Pistol at 50 meters-gold. For more information e-mail me at [email protected].


I'm guessing that this member passed away and the family decided to sell this "ultra Rare" piece....Not knowing that he had a factory letter for it???

So, basically we are talking about "ONE OF TWO MANUFACTURED". I'm sick to my stomach with envy.

Murph

That is NOT the P J Dolphen who shot in the Olympics'. He didn't start shooting until 1908. He died in 1947 at the age of 68. He was born on 1879. If he won that prize in 1889 he would have been 10. The man who won was Peter J. Dolphin.

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Don Mundell

Don,
The P.J.D. As inscribed on the back of the Revolving Rifle/ Pistol( sure would be nice to see the factory letter?). Anyway it’s pure speculation as to what those letters actually represent?

I think his 1880/1879? birthdate automatically eliminates him as the meaning of those letters that date to 1889? It’s pure storyline. The gun was listed with ZERO paperwork so who knows?

According to the 2017 post by the then owner? The only real solid history is it’s factory origin in its present configuration and that it was shipped to Robinson in December of 1886.

No other provenance is included. Just speculation and the inscription on the gun. In my opinion the side plate inscription looks legitimate. As to the meaning on the backstrap? That’s anyone’s guess without documentation to prove it.

Murph

Actually, both spellings are wrong. :-)

In truth, name spellings varied a lot more then than they do now. I've learned in my research to search on just about every name spelling I can imagine.

Peter is listed in the 1908 Springfield City Directory as "Peter Dolfen," and it indicates that he worked at the time at the Springfield Armory.

Here are his obituaries from 1947, which also list his last name as "Dolfen." And yes, he was born in 1879, which makes the 1889 date on the gun an unanswered question.

Mike

And from the same paper two days later:

I took another approach to the gun markings and looked up Conlin's shooting Gallery.

In the Library of Congress I found an article from the NEW YORK JOURNAL...dated May 10, 1896:

All Pistol and Revolver clubs in New York went out of business 3 years ago(1893). The article also included Colin's shooting Gallery. Which it lists as one of the long time Rendezvous for all the crack shots.

The article also listed a new club called the Gotham Revolver club that was recently established.


Back to the listing for the gun? The auction also claims that the United States Revolver Association was established at the site of the Colin's shooting Gallery in 1900?


The Gallery was out of business 7 years prior so to me that brings into question both inscriptions on the gun.


The gun by itself is worth a ton in my opinion. Without proof of the inscriptions that are now very questionable? They don't help the value. In my opinion they blemish it.

Murph

Interesting thread. My pile of revolving rifles are in storage, however I know there are at least two short barrels of around 6 inches to 12 inches. How original they are, I don't recall, but I expect they are aftermarket alterations. Many S&W models with barrels longer than 8 inches, from the Rev. Rifles to the Registered Magnums all had their barrels made from two pieces welded together,so if you used only one piece, you got a shorter barrel then standard. When these Calif. Covid rules are relaxed maybe I'll go look at the pile. There's a mention above of S&W maybe tossing a die that was obsolete. No way, least not until they moved from downtown Springfield to the present location just after WW2. Then there was a down sizing and all obsolete parts, dies, tools, jigs, etc. from the Model One to around the Ladysmith production era were discarded and sold to scrap dealers. I bought a lot of it - barrel stamping dies from the Model One thru many New Model 3 guns, for example, and sold or traded them off to collectors over time. Ed.

Ed,
I'm the guilty one that started that rumor regarding the tossing of the address stamp. Pure guess on my part. Just trying to make sense of the "not centered" address on the Special Order 9" revolving rifle. It was ordered in late 1886 according to the 2017 post from the previous owner. NO actual letter seen but it makes sense that it's a very early special order but it still doesn't answer the question regarding that off center stamp. It really doesn't look too good in my opinion. First one that I have seen that left the factory like that.

Murph

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Murph, Here's my guess. The gun's barrel started out as a standard long barrel ( 20 inches, or thereabout.) The "Special order"was filled by cutting the already rib stamped standard barrel to the 9 in, and off it went to the buyer, leaving the barrel stamping as it was. No need to mill down the rib & rest stamp it. Having said all that, I'll have to go look at a standard Rev. Rifle & see where the stamping is in relation to where it is in the poster's photos, and whether my guess computes. Ed

Ed,
Here are a couple of photos. The Revolving Rifle barrel length photo’d is 18”. You can see the 9” Mark is about the same for this 9” special order barrel but I would estimate that a 16” barrel was cut down due to the location of the stamp.
Also, I photo’d a New Model 3 barrel address from 1892 and that stamp is basically “ IDENTICAL “ to the Revolving Rifle barrel stamp from about 1880.

So, why they didn’t center the stamp on the special order is beyond me. Since we’ve now proven that they did have the correct stamp available. Doesn’t sit well that’s for sure. Moving the original stamp back to center could have easily been done from my hands on view.

They obviously saw it wasn’t centered when they re-milled the slot for the front sight? I hate to put it bluntly but it looks like Bubba cut the barrel.

**** I just thought of another possibility? Notice the rear sight on the Revolving Rifle? The special order required them to fill that slot with a blank where the rear sight resided. So, perhaps they didn't move the stamp to center since it would be struck at the same location as the rear sight. That was now filled in with a blank...That makes sense.

Murph

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If you look at the photos you can see the pinned blank on top of the barrel where the rear sight was. That makes sense that the factory could not have machine stamped the barrel address over that blank.

Murph

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I have a Frank Wesson model 1870 target pistol with Conlin Gallery markings. My assumption has been that the Gallery kept guns on hand for the use of members. If that was the case, it could explain the early history of the gun in question.

Bob

Bob,
In my opinion your Frank Wesson is a direct reflection of the "Wealth" that was a pre-requisite to join this Conlins Gallery Shooting Club prior to its closing in 1893.

Members of the forum can not confirm the engraving on this Rare 9" barrel Revolving Rifle. The gun itself in my opinion is a reflection of wealth simply by "Special Order" and the time it was ordered but the engravings are questionable in my opinion.

No provenance came with this gun. Just storyline. I personally don't appreciate stories...I consider them Yarns without proof. The initials on the back strap don't fit the story(Yarn) and looking at the side plate with an open mind? The quality of the engraving is not great. It looks old to me but the temptation to alter a gun to increase it's value has been part of the collecting world since Surplus guns were refinished and often altered to appear Confederate by Bannermans in the 1880's....So, without provenance to prove the Storyline, I personally am not a believer.

When a collector looks at an engraving and says: "That guy was only 10 years old in 1889"! What does that do to the value of the gun? In my opinion it gets labeled. The extreme rarity of this 9" barrel Revolving Rifle is now deflated by possibly "faked" markings.

In my opinion the gun would be worth more standing on the foundation of truth and extreme rarity from a factory letter.

Murph