Lots of my guns I did not know I wanted until I saw one here, or somewhere else. Grail gun to me implies either a rare gun, one that for sentimental reasons is desirable, or a particular individual owned it. There could be other reasons such as for myself price is realistically out of my reach unless I find a bargain. All of us are at different collecting levels. What could be a grail gun for me might make an advanced collector yawn. Then again I might have a Grail gun in my collection to someone else. For instance I have a Colt 1900 38 Rimless one of only around 3500 made cosmetically it is challenged, but I bet to some Colt collectors even in its present condition would still be a Grail gun.
At one point this was a grail for me, then I got it.
It's pretty awesome to own about the 150th S&W ever made.
The funny thing is, the Volcanic is somewhat peripheral to my research right now. I've had plenty of opportunities to buy one, but I've prioritized fluffing out my Model 1 collection instead.
I guess my other grail gun is a "2d Qual'ty" Model 1. I think that's one of the only variants that I don't yet own.
The funny thing is, the Volcanic is somewhat peripheral to my research right now. I've had plenty of opportunities to buy one, but I've prioritized fluffing out my Model 1 collection instead.
I guess my other grail gun is a "2d Qual'ty" Model 1. I think that's one of the only variants that I don't yet own.
Mike
I always have trouble when people talk about Volcanics. I feel like Volcanic collecting is it's own thing that may require a body to find a Smith & Wesson, but for me I only ever wanted the actual Smith & Wesson lever pistol.
My camera setup is poor right now, but here's a quick and bad shot of what I had, at one time, considered grails. Pre war .357s are a bad addiction though, I've managed 4 of them at this point.
Still just the one small frame lever gun though. S/N B54.
My grail S&W guns are what I know I can actually afford if I find one for sale. And they are very common guns on this forum. A 6” nickel 586, an 8 3/8” nickel Model 27-2 (because they cost less than older 27s and are P&R).
I always have trouble when people talk about Volcanics. I feel like Volcanic collecting is it's own thing that may require a body to find a Smith & Wesson, but for me I only ever wanted the actual Smith & Wesson lever pistol.
My interest in the Volcanic has more to do with the similarities in the design of the Volcanic's early grip to that of the Model 1. I've long wanted to do a side-by-side comparison of the guns to see what they essentially "lifted" from the Volcanic when they designed the Model 1. I suspect there's more similarities than meets the eye, even though the guns function very differently.
That said, the Smith & Wesson that made the Volcanic is not the same company that made the Model 1 (and that still exists). It's a bit like the modern-day Cadillac Motor Company, which was founded on the ashes of the Henry Ford Company — Henry Ford's second automobile making venture that existed from 1901 to 1902. The Ford Motor Company (which still exists today) was founded in 1903, and they at least get it correct when they talk about their founding date. If they wanted to be historically correct, Smith & Wesson would stop talking about their founding in 1852 and start talking about their founding in 1856.
(all of this said in my best grumpy-old-man voice that I normally reserve for yelling at kids to get off my lawn.)
Mike
Last edited by first-model; 08-25-2021 at 11:43 AM.
Mike
Outstanding.
Is the knurling on the cyl standard?
That's the million dollar question.
It actually has a "split cylinder" that looks a bit like the shell extractors on the top break guns. The machine work is superb and my haunch is that it's factory work, but the experiment didn't work. That said, I think they wanted to get the gun out the door to generate much-needed revenue, so out it went.
"Is the knurling on the cyl standard?". It didn't become a 'standard' procedure to knurl the "split cylinder" and the split cylinder was also dropped from production in favor of a one-piece cylinder for the major part of production. It IS an early Smith & Wesson production example of a very rare attempt by S&W to produce a cartridge firearm.
"Is the knurling on the cyl standard?". It didn't become a 'standard' procedure to knurl the "split cylinder" and the split cylinder was also dropped from production in favor of a one-piece cylinder for the major part of production. It IS an early Smith & Wesson production example of a very rare attempt by S&W to produce a cartridge firearm.
To add to what Mike said ... I only know of two Model 1's that ever had a split cylinder. This is one of them. The other (just the cylinder) was featured on the cover of a Flayderman catalog some decades ago. Nobody seems to know where that cylinder ended up.
However, I imagine there has to be one or two models collectors would kill for which perhaps are not listed the the 4th edition.
Thanks,
Marty D.
Marty
Because of the ever-expanding reach of proximate cause in civil litigation, and the enormous cost of defending even frivolous lawsuits, guns that "collectors would kill for" were no doubt deliberately left out of the 4th edition.
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Last edited by bushmaster1313; 08-25-2021 at 11:37 PM.
Sounds like my story. My US model 3 belonged to my GGG Grandpa and hung on my grandma’s wall with none of us knowing anything about it. She gave it to me in 1978, and I threw it in a drawer for 35 years before I ever took any interest in it.
The Holy Grail would depend on what YOU are interested in collecting. It could be a 6" M Frame Target, or a Model 29 owned by some famous movie actor. Not everyone would have the same "Holy Grail".
Well, I went after a 38/44 outdoorsman with the box on GB only because it belonged to Rubiranch, and the condition is 98%+. Everybody said it will be the centerpiece of you collection. Well, I got it, and I really like it, but it is not my focal point. My focal point is my M29-5 Classic DX, that I bought new, and only fired 12 rounds through it. I had no idea what it was, and I looked at in a case for almost a year. I finally bought it, because I got tired of looking at it in the case. I had no idea it was rather special, because they only made a couple hundred with a 5" bbl
While your question may appear simple and straightforward on the surface, there are a multitude of considerations, variants, prevailing market and personal opinions.
My grail guns were different than other folks' grail guns so I agree with TheHobbyist.
While I concur with The Hobbyist, my ULTIMATE, all-time wish was to acquire a Model 1, 1st Issue, 1st Type. One of the first revolvers made by S&W and very difficult to find. Along the way, there were other revolvers that became desirable to my collecting interests and I scratched that itch. I made them my short-term grail guns but the acquisition of the 1-1-1 was still my apex piece.
Some boring background:
My original interest was with the Model 2 as I have one that has family ties going back to the Civil War. Things then expanded to include all the models up to the first swing-out cylinder models; i.e., the Hand Ejectors. That's when things got out of hand. I began to buy respectable condition top -break revolvers until I discovered many duplicates of some models and no representation of other models.
Enter Neal & Jinks book, 1st edition. I have used this book as an archive of my collecting interests by noting serial numbers and decided to 'fill out' my collection with one representative example of every Model and Issue (variation) listed in this book. I think that may be a mistake.
Fifty-five years later, my ultimate grail gun, the Model 1, 1st Issue, 1st Type was found. Over the years, a few have been offered for sale and I passed; either from sticker shock or the condition scared me; mostly it was the price as I really could not afford the price and continue to eat lunch at the same time.
My interest in the Volcanic has more to do with the similarities in the design of the Volcanic's early grip to that of the Model 1. . .
Mike
I like the large frame Volcanic magazine pistols as well. They appeal to me because of the similarities to the Henry rifle and Model 1866. Always thought one could convert an 1866 reproduction to a very potent magazine pistol. Of course mine is a reproduction, but fun to look at!
When I posted my question I was thinking about really rare, rare guns.
It did not occur to me that everyone, including myself, has a Holy Grail desire which is unique to what they collect or shoot.
What lead me to post my question was coming across a statement somewhere, do not remember, which said the Holy Grail for Smith collectors would be a Smith revolving rifle which would sell for well over $20,000. I then wondered if it was a true statement. I did a search on line for sales of the 320 rifle and found several sold below $15,000.
I know any firearm owned by a noted personality could sell for, possibly 6 digits, perhaps more.
So, I guess there really isn't a True Holy Grail Smith firearm for everyone.
Thanks,
Marty D
While your mentioned "grail guns" may be truly "grail", not many here could actually afford (or want to pay that amount for) one of them.
To me, a "grail gun" would be totally unique to ME. And in my case, it would be a K-22 born on November 1, 1956 in immaculate condition with all the fixins. Anyone got one?
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