The Holy Grail Smith

martyd · #1 08-20-2021, 02:58 PM

Just curious.

What model Smith would be considered the Holy Grail for a collector?

I see some comments by the authors in 4th Ed Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson regarding rarity of various models.

However, I imagine there has to be one or two models collectors would kill for which perhaps are not listed the the 4th edition.

I will try to obtain a copy of Roy G. Jinks book.

I doubt I will be able to find and afford a copy of Smith & Wesson by Neal and Jinks but I will try anyway.

Thanks,
Marty D.

TheHobbyist · #2 08-20-2021, 03:17 PM

While your question may appear simple and straightforward on the surface, there are a multitude of considerations, variants, prevailing market and personal opinions.

Perhaps the inverse would be the best place to start; that is, what is your pinnacle of ownership and why did you derive to that conclusion?

deadin · #3 08-20-2021, 03:35 PM

I'm sure that every collector has a different "Holy Grail"
For many it would be a Registered Magnum (which really isn't all that rare, just expensive.)
You might try to find a 1st model 32 DA top-break. (Not everybody's cup of tea, but very rare). I'm sure there are others....

ruger 22 · #4 08-20-2021, 03:58 PM

I am not a collector but with my son we are avid Smith shooters. Rather than call them'holy grail', we use the term 'must haves' and so far we have gotten a 63 (for my son's 14th birthday, he is now 54), a model 17-1, a 34-2 2", a 28-2 4", a 686 and my daily carry a 649-2. Our 44 mag choice is a Ruger SBH and to date we have not yet been bitten by the 50 cal bug. Of course that could change very quickly depending what we see at our local gun shows.

Wiregrassguy · #5 08-20-2021, 03:59 PM

According to Mrs. Wiregrassguy, all my guns are Grail Guns that should be filled with hemlock and served to me in a Spielberg movie.

When I tried to explain that wasn't practical because all the fluid would drain out, she gave me that stare. That woman is totally humorless.

Memphis · #6 08-20-2021, 04:02 PM

That Reg Mag with registration number "1" has GOT to be at least near the top. Does it still exist.... I think it does. Does anybody know where it is... I think they do. Do "I"? Not even remotely. I love the mistique.

Roger

mikerjf · #7 08-20-2021, 04:29 PM

Reg Mag #1 would certainly be up there... as would JFK's service revolver, tho it might be kinda rusty after its dunking.

iby · #8 08-20-2021, 04:38 PM

Since you posted this in the "Antiques" section, I would suggest a Model 1 First issue, first variation.
or a S&W lever action pistol

glowe · #9 08-20-2021, 04:38 PM

Since you asked in the Antique Section, I would say there are two on my list of grail guns, but have never owned either.

First would be the 320 Revolving Rifle in its original case with shoulder stock. There were only 977 made and not near that many exist today. They came in a 16", 18", and 20" barrel lengths.

The Holy Grail Smith-320-revolving-rifle-jpg

The Holy Grail Smith-320-revolving-rifle-jpg

The second for me would be the US Army Model 3 American revolver made around 1871. It is important because it was a very significant gun for Smith & Wesson, being the first successful large frame revolver made by the company. Second because the US Army ordered only 1,000 some 150 years ago this year., and third because the survival rate is undoubtedly low.

The Holy Grail Smith-us-army-american-jpg

The Holy Grail Smith-us-army-american-jpg

hkcavalier · #10 08-20-2021, 04:40 PM

This term means something different to everyone.

A unique gun with a known location/owner can't be a Holy Grail gun to someone else. It's been found. It's their Holy Grail, not yours.

I don't understand why seeking anything but a very specific Registered Magnum qualifies either. Bust out the credit card, cash out the IRA, take out a loan on your house...you can get a RM at auction or FS on a regular basis. But if you're seeking a specific RM lost to history, that's a Holy Grail.

I am of the belief that the .22LR Registered Magnum is the ultimate Holy Grail S&W. But I also believe it's in a private collection of an individual or family that's very quiet about the whole affair.

mrcvs · #11 08-20-2021, 06:25 PM

Being posted in the “Antique” section, I assume you mean a rather desirable antique, but with condition.

How about a First Model American with Oil Hole, and with condition?

mrcvs · #12 08-20-2021, 06:28 PM

If that doesn’t suit your fancy, maybe you desire something with condition and a rare barrel length. How about a New Model No 3 with an 8 inch barrel?

mrcvs · #13 08-20-2021, 06:33 PM

If you desire something more compact, how about a few Baby Russians in their original boxes, take your pick, nickel or blue. Look closely, the nickel one still has the desirable wrench with it.

mrcvs · #14 08-20-2021, 06:42 PM

Or, maybe you are referring to a Third Model Perfected Single Shot pistol. Not an antique, as it shipped Dec of 1911, but top breaks are posted in this section. The condition doesn’t get any better and it has a rare knurled trigger.

H Richard · #15 08-20-2021, 06:53 PM

The Holy Grail would depend on what YOU are interested in collecting. It could be a 6" M Frame Target, or a Model 29 owned by some famous movie actor. Not everyone would have the same "Holy Grail".

Model46 · #16 08-20-2021, 08:15 PM

My Holy Grail gun was the K22/40. I found one last fall after years of searching.

deadin · #17 08-20-2021, 08:29 PM

Well Gary,

I can say that I have owned each of your "grail guns".
Well.... almost... The Revolving Rifle wasn't cased and was in nowhere any kind of condition. (Below poor, but I fired it just so I could say I had.)
The No. 3 American (oil hole) didn't have the "US" marking.... but was close...... Oh well..... I tried.

I think the most scarce gun I have ever owned is a Springfield M1875 Officers Model. It's not the prettiest one around but is one of only around 477 made.
The best part is I still own it, so it really no longer qualifies as a grail gun for me. (It's not the be all, end all....)

I know where there is a Colt M1902 Military Contract (200 made) that could be had but the owner is afraid to sell it because he feels he will be short changed. (The gun does have some problems and probably won't bring what the big auction houses seem to think they're worth.)

outta_ammo · #18 08-20-2021, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyd

I doubt I will be able to find and afford a copy of Smith & Wesson by Neal and Jinks but I will try anyway.

The Neal & Jinks book is readily available on amazon. You can pick up a used edition right now for $40.

Just like guns, I buy my books used when available. Oddly, the words are all still there.

Vidd · #19 08-20-2021, 09:03 PM

What I believe is a Holy Grail gun? if I can ever find who had it built and used it in which Olympics the story goes it was made in 1910 for the 1912 National Olympics

Hair Trigger · #20 08-20-2021, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyd

Just curious.
What model Smith would be considered the Holy Grail for a collector?

You must choose, but choose wisely.

Club Gun Fan · #21 08-21-2021, 12:09 AM

Mine is my Revolving Rifle serial number 1.

new2S&W · #22 08-21-2021, 12:13 AM

I am fortunate to be the proud caretaker for an original 1 of 1000 US marked model 3 Americans with the "oil hole" and factory letter from Roy Jinks. Not bad considering our family had it for over 70 years without knowing the history or importance of the weapon.
Dumb luck? Absolutely!

mmaher94087 · #23 08-21-2021, 12:27 AM

"However, I imagine there has to be one or two models collectors would kill for which perhaps are not listed the the 4th edition."

My opinion, since this question was asked in the Antique section of the forum: Only a very few Experimental models would not be listed in the 4th edition of the SCSW as they would be one-off Smith & Wesson's that have not been discovered to date. Since the database of Smith & Wesson has been updated from 1965 to the present, it's hard to believe that there are very many firearms that haven't been cataloged.

merl67 · #24 08-21-2021, 12:43 AM

I think it sort of depends on how deep your pockets are. Now if we are really dreaming I would probably pick Elmer Keith's first 44 Magnum

mmaher94087 · #25 08-21-2021, 12:45 AM

Again, asked in the Antique section: "What model Smith would be considered the Holy Grail for a collector?"

My list :
Model 1, 1st Issue, 1st Type. ~15 known to exist. THE holy grail.
Model 1, 2nd Issue. Early, square-cut side plate. Unknown small quantity.
.32DA Double Action. 30 manufactured.

BMur · #26 08-21-2021, 01:08 AM

I'm a fan of Smith & Wesson rarity myself...In my mind I don't think that there is any manufactured Smith & Wesson as rare as the Number 3 tip up revolver in .41 Rimfire 4 shot.

Only four have been documented. Three were sent to the Paris Exposition in 1867 and disappeared after the event. Only one other was documented in a private collection. I'm not aware of any others that exist today. Estimated at 50 manufactured and I personally don't believe that 50 were actually manufactured and "assembled" . More likely a handful and the unassembled parts remaining went back into the metal pot. This due to an unfortunate event that took place at the Exposition during a firing trial that ended Smith & Wesson's interest in that caliber.

This variation is my personal Holy Grail. I don't need to own it....I'd just like to actually see one before I die. In hand.

Murph

Patbar · #27 08-21-2021, 02:34 AM

Mine is more modest than many above. It's a S&W 1 1/2 transitional model (650 units produced, mixing the cylinder and barrel of the first model with the frame of the second model).

StrawHat · #28 08-21-2021, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMur

…This due to an unfortunate event that took place at the Exposition during a firing trial that ended Smith & Wesson's interest …

Murph…

I tried searching for the incident, no luck. Please tell us!

Kevin

Hair Trigger · #29 08-21-2021, 08:20 AM

Within the range of revolvers I typically like, a M520 would most likely be my Grail gun.

Llance · #30 08-21-2021, 08:26 AM

For me right now it's a S&W 1917 .45 Colt in original condition unfired or little fired. A friend has one but he doesn't want to let it go just yet because it belonged to his friend, who ended his life with it. MY friend believes that it may be cursed and he doesn't want to pass on something which may cause me to take the ultimate trip. If I was going to do that I'd a done it long ago with one of my other pistols.

I've been fortunate in that I've worked in a gun store and been part owner of one and had access to many Holy Grails but usually couldn't find the funds to buy them. When the widow of the owner of the gun store where I worked came to my store she brought me a box of guns she found hidden about her house. In the box I found a Colt Officers Model in .45 ACP. Not a Holy Grail, but near as close as I'm likely to get.

I've had many good buys which have filled out my inventory. I was never a fan of Winchester M-70's until I got my .30-06. One trip to the range and I was convinced this is a gun everyone aught to own.

VictorLouis · #31 08-21-2021, 11:15 AM

I'll throw-in for the experimental C-frame...

That sucker would sell like a winner these days...

Tadeus67 · #32 08-21-2021, 01:14 PM

For me is the Mexican Target Model, that I have

robvious · #33 08-21-2021, 01:21 PM

for me.. and a few more people.. though it is not an antique..
the model 28-1 is that magic object.. only one know to exist so far... that is pretty Holy Grail to me...

Baltimoreed11754 · #34 08-21-2021, 01:37 PM

My grail Smith would be an original .455 Triplelock. Doesn’t have to have any provenance.

martyd · #35 08-21-2021, 03:47 PM

Wow!

When I posted my question I was thinking about really rare, rare guns.

It did not occur to me that everyone, including myself, has a Holy Grail desire which is unique to what they collect or shoot.

What lead me to post my question was coming across a statement somewhere, do not remember, which said the Holy Grail for Smith collectors would be a Smith revolving rifle which would sell for well over $20,000. I then wondered if it was a true statement. I did a search on line for sales of the 320 rifle and found several sold below $15,000.

I know any firearm owned by a noted personality could sell for, possibly 6 digits, perhaps more.

So, I guess there really isn't a True Holy Grail Smith firearm for everyone.

Thanks,
Marty D

dwh · #36 08-21-2021, 03:47 PM

For me it’s going to be an 1899 target 32-20. Then a 1902 target, 1905 1st and 2nd change targets in 32-20. The hunt continues :.

deadin · #37 08-21-2021, 05:52 PM

A "Holy Grail" is a moving target. Regardless of what your grail gun is, if you obtain it a different grail gun will replace it.
Or are you saying that "If I could just get that "???" I will never need to get another gun......Really??

mikeruns · #38 08-21-2021, 07:05 PM

Mine would probably be Gary Cooper’s or Jimmy Stewart’s Registered magnum….or if Randolph Scot owned one-that would do it for me too, providing it had a 6” or shorter bbl…I just don’t warm up to the longer barreled guns unless they are rimfire Buntlines….my own strange ideas lol

lihpster · #39 08-21-2021, 07:27 PM

Mine would be an old M&P .38 with a 4" barrel, white plastic stocks and most of the finish worn off. It used to be my father's. it was the first handgun I ever shot. It was stolen 35 or so years ago and even the serial # is lost to history. I wouldn't know it if I held it in my hand.
But I want it back.

STCM(SW) · #40 08-21-2021, 07:47 PM

Wanting Things Makes Us Happier Than Having Them be that a woman, car or a gun........
I want for none of them as I have all three.....

Beemerguy53 · #41 08-21-2021, 07:49 PM

Everyone has a different standard for what constitutes a "Holy Grail Gun".

For years, I wanted a Victory Model. They were out there, of course, some of them quite inexpensive, but considering the history of the Victory Model, and how most of them were used and carried, finding one in good original, unaltered condition was very challenging.

Some years ago, a Forum member posted this beauty for sale. It's unfired and all original, which has to make it very rare indeed, and I responded that I would take it the instant I saw it. It was priced at almost twice the going rate for a Victory Model at that time -- but today I wouldn't sell for ten times what I paid for it.

The only other S&W I want nearly as much would be a Registered Magnum...but I doubt I'll ever get one of those.

ol777gunnerz · #42 08-21-2021, 08:02 PM

It depends on what you call a grail gun, because it is a very rare model, or historically rare due to it's first owner? Shown first is a 6 inch barrel, 32 S&W 1st Model of 91 single shot, an 8 inch barreled 4th model DA, Dr. R H Sayres [captain of the first 4 U S Olympic pistol & revolver teams] 1st Model of 91 single shot with an H M Pope sleeved left hand twist barrel, or Victor H Wesson's 3rd model single shot with Olympic chamber & Gagne target grips.

StrawHat · #43 08-21-2021, 08:11 PM

I would like one of the preproduction New Century Models submitted for the 1907 Army Trials, chambered for the 45 S&W Special. I want that enough I am willing to settle for building a replica!

Kevin

Dieseltech56 · #44 08-21-2021, 08:50 PM

How about a model 57 silhouette. That would be one I’d like to see, I believe there were 4 produced.

orbruce · #45 08-21-2021, 09:43 PM

My Holy Grail gun is the one I do not own! Since there are so many S&W's out there I'm always looking for that one special S&W.

B Mower

deadin · #46 08-21-2021, 10:08 PM

Quote:

My Holy Grail gun is the one I do not own!

Bruce,
I thought you already owned most of them!!

raljr1 · #47 08-23-2021, 08:21 PM

Original Schofield in good condition...

Robert

Bullet Bob · #48 08-23-2021, 08:38 PM

The Registered Magnum in .22 long rifle.

first-model · #49 08-23-2021, 09:51 PM

For me, it's the Model 1, 1st Issue, 1st Variant. I was very, very lucky to add my "grail gun" to my collection this year.

Mike

mmaher94087 · #50 08-23-2021, 10:43 PM

My take on a Grail Gun is one that has become almost impossible to acquire today. This Grail is either not manufactured in quantity or has not survived in numbers large enough for them to be found in normal commerce.

I hold no malice to those that wish to own a Modern Smith but, in my thinking, a revolver made 100 years before I was born is more difficult to acquire than, say, a Registered Magnum. The latter, in my opinion, was a used gun as I grew up and can be bought readily on today's market if one has the cash.

A Grail Gun is what one wants to own based upon one's collecting interests. My Grail's are Antique.