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10-25-2021, 08:51 AM
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Second model .44 russian contract.
Hi guys
I have a S&W "Russian contract", second model (or old model).
Not delivered to Imperial Russia, it has been sold on the US commercial market by Schuyler, Hartley & Graham (diamond shaped SH marking).
7 inches barrel, nickel finish, ivory grips, classical S&W marking on the barrel band (not cyrillics).
Serial #34535.
What's its production date?
If I am right, 2nd model commercial "russian contract" were into 32800-39000 serials block.
So, #34535 is in the beginning of this production.
1874? 1875? later?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Francois
Last edited by oxi81; 11-14-2021 at 03:48 PM.
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11-22-2021, 12:24 PM
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Hi there,
Got no response, but I suppose that only a factory letter could answer to me about a precise date
I have another question : we know that M.V.Robinson, C° in New York was the largest S&W distributor, but seemingly, the vast majority of the 6200 "commercial russian contract" revolvers have been purchased by Schuyler, Hartley & Graham company.
Is there any reason for that special bunch purchase?
Or is it just because SHG was in the right place at the right time?
Francois
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11-22-2021, 12:57 PM
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What are the barrel markings? It is definitely a Model 3 Russian, 2nd Model made from 1873 to 1878. The book states that Commercial Models were made from 32,000 to 39,000 range. Problem is that there are no ship dates listed in the SWCA database for 2nd Model. Another issue is that more than 6300 were made for the commercial market, but it has been so long since I have owned any Russians, I forget the details of production of the 2nd Model.
I owned a 2nd Model with serial number 51682 that shipped in 1875, so yours would have likely shipped earlier. English top rib address and "RUSSIAN MODEL" stamps. That gun has been chrome plated as some point in its life, with plated hammer and trigger as well. I had a Model 3 44 DA Frontier that was all chrome. Did not affect the performance of the revolver and was quite impressive in its chrome finish.
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Gary
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11-22-2021, 02:13 PM
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Hi Gary,
Barrel markings are like yours in english, with "RUSSIAN MODEL" stamp.
How do you know that your gun #51682 has been shipped in 1875 if there is no record for 2nd models in SWCA database?
This .44 DA is outstanding. I prefer #3 revolvers than DA, but this one is... wow. 
Francois
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11-22-2021, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxi81
. . . How do you know that your gun #51682 has been shipped in 1875 if there is no record for 2nd models in SWCA database?
This .44 DA is outstanding. I prefer #3 revolvers than DA, but this one is... wow.
Francois |
One of the many perks of being a S&W Collectors Association member is that any member can ask Roy Jinks for ship dates of any and all S&Ws we own. That Model 3, 2nd actually shipped in January of 1875. Anyone can join and the cost is not high, plus you get the greatest journals devoted to S&Ws that are out there.
Actually, I sold that 44 DA to a buyer in England along with that Model 3, 2nd, and a Model 3, 3rd Model a few years ago.
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Gary
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11-22-2021, 09:48 PM
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Major Distributors
Looking through my Major Distributor catalog collection I can actually clearly confirm several Distributors that sold the Old Model 44 Russian. See photo's. Of Henry C. Squires circa 1876 from New York as just one example. Notice they also featured the Baby Russian as a New Model.
I'm not sure we are doing thorough research when we point to one Distributor. I've found that even when a Distributor "claims" to be the "SOLE" agent for gun manufacturers like Colt, Smith & Wesson, Remington, Hopkins & Allen, Rupertus, etc. More often they were not.
*** Note: It's also clearly noted several times in various Distributor Catalogs a clear purchase of a large volume of one specific model that is being replaced by a Newer Model that stimulated a bulk sale. The timeline clearly proves that position.
Example ;"We have just purchased the last 2000 guns of this line and are able to share cost savings with the consumer. Don't miss your chance to buy this high quality revolver at a discount price!
Murph
Last edited by BMur; 11-22-2021 at 10:04 PM.
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11-23-2021, 03:54 AM
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Thank you Gary and Murph for your inputs.
Shipping guns to the western frontier during the 1870's was surely very long and hazardous. First by chuck wagon, then by train. Through hostile Indian territories. It was probably a headache for the distributors.
Your country has experienced a fascinating period
Francois
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11-23-2021, 06:12 AM
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Looks like it’s been re-nickeled.
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11-23-2021, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruger 1,3
Looks like it’s been re-nickeled.
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I also think that it has been re-nickeled, but probably an old job.
Nickel is far from perfect : little wrinckles, scratches and missings here and there
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11-23-2021, 05:40 PM
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Henry C. Squires was a catalog company, selling directly to individuals out of No. 1 Courtlandt Street, New York City. I clearly see information on the web indicating they printed retail catalogs and offered mail orders and most likely had a storefront on Courtlandt Street. I can find no information that leads me to believe they were a direct distributor for Smith & Wesson. They could have bought inventory uptown from M. W. Robinson at wholesale prices for resale. The early distributors were J. W. Storrs who was S&Ws sole early distributor until the late 1860s when M. W. Robinson, also said to be the sole agent started handling S&Ws when Storr ended their dealership in 1869 by some reports. If M. W. Robinson was ever a sole distributor, it could not have lasted very long. Many guns went to England and Europe and I believe they did not use Robinson for shipping.
Having said that, I can find no information indicating when S&W started selling wholesale to other distributors before around 1871. We know that companies like Beakeart in San Francisco and Shapley in St. Louis were ordering direct from S&W by the late 1800s, If you look on page 38 of John Parsons book, you will find that Robinson took over the New York agency in 1869 from Storr who was Robinson's former employee.
A business card from around 1870 clearly shows that MW Robinson claimed to be the sole agent for S&W. By May, 1871, any proprietary claims made by Robinson was null and void since there were at least 14 companies receiving a letter about ordering pistols in quantities less than 100. it appears that they would be charged more than if they bought more than 100 units per order. This letter went out to 14 agents plus Colonel Schofield, page 178-179 of Parson's book.
The guns are chrome, not nickel as noted above. The difference is not too hard to discern, with nickel being a soft luster, often with a slight yellow undertone and chrome looks like a car bumper, deep mirror shine in appearance. Unfortunately, chrome is much harder to strip than nickel. My guess is that both the above chromed guns were done some time after the turn of the Twentieth Century. You will also notice that the hammer, top latch, trigger, and trigger guard was plated instead of original factory blue or case colored.
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Gary
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Last edited by glowe; 11-23-2021 at 05:43 PM.
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11-23-2021, 09:28 PM
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Sole Agent
If you actually take the time and expense to study Major Distributors of the late 19th century in depth one thing you will clearly note is most of what they print is based on "Market Ploy's".
Stretching the truth and sensationalizing was their business. Often listing long discontinued guns as "NEW MODELS". When they were clearly terminated from production many years prior.
Believing what they print as fact is a major part of their marketing strategy.
You will also discover the vast majority sold Smith & Wesson revolvers. That is from coast to coast and beyond. Even Bloomingdales sold Smith & Wesson revolvers. You could find them available next to the toy doll listing.
Murph
Last edited by BMur; 11-23-2021 at 09:32 PM.
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11-24-2021, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe
If M. W. Robinson was ever a sole distributor, it could not have lasted very long. Many guns went to England and Europe and I believe they did not use Robinson for shipping.
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Yes, more probably SHG who had already sent to France large batches of rifles when prussian/french war broke out. Some of these batches passed through english importers, some others directly to the french Gvt.
SHG company seemed to be well implanted in Europe for weapons exportation.
Last edited by oxi81; 11-24-2021 at 07:54 AM.
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12-03-2021, 06:24 PM
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No.3 Russian contract, Serial Number 9888?
Hi everyone!
I saw this piece ( not mine ) a Year ago. Attic find, Bubba "repaired" and "deactivated" ( drilled through the Barrel ) it. 🙁
Cyrillic letters in the top says manufactured in Springfield , USA.
Its obviously a No.3 Russian contract. caliber .44 Russian. The country where I meet with this poor piece have very strict gun laws so this piece is illegal there.
Can anyone tell me more about this S&W?
Thanks!
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12-06-2021, 06:23 AM
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Hello
It's a russian contract, 2nd model (1874-1878) with standard 7 in. barrel, blue finish and wood grips.
Rough shape.
In which country has it been found? Russia?
Last edited by oxi81; 12-06-2021 at 06:26 AM.
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