Hey everyone. I've just joined the group to see if I can find out any more info about the cased .32 rimfire revolver model No. 2 I've inherited from my late grandfather here in Ireland. It's a tip up type with a 5" barrel.
The Serial Number on the butt is 1509. The police tell me it has British proof marks, whatever that means?
The top of the barrel is stamped with 'E Pope, Clonmel' (in Ireland) My question is what does this mean? Is it the name of the original owner?
Unfortunately my grandfather never mentioned this gun to me and I have no idea of it's history or even why he had it. He was a gamekeeper here in Ireland at the time of civil unrest before and after Ireland was partitioned in 1921. Such a pity I will never know it's history. I don't know if it has any monetary value either. Any insights very welcome.

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You should show the top of the barrel

Neat 32rf. That’s definitely a European case. The grips are also typically checkered. I suspect the name engraved on the gun is the maker and/or Distributor in Europe. Likely a well made copy but like iby suggested? A. Clear photo of the barrel top would help a lot. Along with all visible letters, numbers, and proof stamps.

** Actually, this has to be a well made copy in Europe. The serial number is too low for this type number 2 Army if it were manufactured by Smith and Wesson it would be a two pin frame on the top of the gun? Yours has 3 pins. Plus the barrel at the tip shows a European type muzzle.

Murph

Sorry for loss of your grandad.

Thats a nifty revolver; your grandfather must have thought you a sturdy, trustworthy man to entrust a firesrm to your care. I imagine a good glass of whiskey and a seat by a warm fire, and a toast to him, is in order.

It looks like a well made gun.

As an fan of any and all things Irish, that thing is absolutely awesome.

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Some Might Say.

First off, welcome to the Forum. The Model 2 was an important invention that enabled S&W to gain a foot-hold in the self-contained ammunition market. It was powerful enough to be purchased by thousands of Civil War soldiers, in order to carry a 6 shot revolver that could be quickly re-loaded with manufactured ammunition.

The Model 2 started production in 1861 and ended with 1874 with serial number 77,155. If a S&W made revolver, your serial number would indicate that it likely shipped from the factory in either 1861 or 1862. Having said that, there is a possibility that your revolver might be a copy of S&W's Model 2. Many were made in Europe, mostly in Belgium, but seem to recall that companies in England also made copies of the Model 2. The standard top of rib stamping simply stated the company and address as shown in the image below. S&W would not have looked to kindly on another company removing their stamping to place anything else on the rib??

S&W pursued patent infringements with a passion, even in Europe and I wonder if Pope was a company that copied this model? I do know that they ceased manufacture in 1867, maybe after litigation?? See the attachment below. Clonmel is the county town and largest settlement of County Tipperary, Ireland with a current population of 17,000.

Hope this helps.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Wow Gary that's fantastic information. Thank you so much. I'm now assuming that this is a copy S&W made in Ireland before 1867 when Ireland was under British rule. Fascinating stuff.

I suspect that the others are correct, in that this is not a 'Smith & Wesson' Smith & Wesson, but some other maker. The #2s were very simple guns made on fairly simple machinery, and were widely copied across Britain and the Continent.

This one has an unusual shape to the barrel rib at the muzzle, among other slight differences from an 'original;' The stamp atop the barrel rib and the lack of an S&W roll mark leads me to think that either Mr. Pope made the gun, or perhaps purchased it from one of the numerous Belgian firms that made copies, and then submitted it to Dublin, Birmingham or London for proofing. If you can find the proof marks, you can discern where it was proofed (facsimiles of the marks are online).
The case is more British than Continental, I think, due to its simple dividers and lack of contouring or 'fitting.'

It's a really nice piece, and a lovely bit of family history.

If you have a strong magnifier, please look for patent dates around the cylinder. All S&Ws had a line of patent dates wrapped around the middle of the cylinder. Just another way to help you determine authenticity.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

It's a copy. Quick giveaway is the location of the trigger pivot pin. The OP's pin is centered on the spur; not forward as the S&W's.

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Mike Maher #283

Thanks very much for all your responses. They've been really helpful and cleared up a lot of the mystery. It seems that this is indeed a copy made in Ireland before 1867 and not an original S&W unfortunately. However, I'm very pleased to have it anyway! Best wishes to you all.

Alison

Don't say 'unfortunately!' Your revolver is MUCH more interesting than a common S&W #2, especially if it actually was made, pretty much by hand, by an Irish independent gunmaker.

Often, though, guns like this that did not come from S&W or another well-known makers were made in some quantities by various independent shops or small factories in England and the Continent, came unmarked, and could thus be stamped with any name that a dealer wished. Pope may have been just a 'dealer,' not a 'manufacturer,' and had this gun marked with his name--much as did Sears, Roebuck and many other American hardware stores, who bought guns from major manufacturers and had them marked with their store name, intimating that they had built the gun themselves.

Like all the guys said, that's a nice gun, regardless of manufacturer. Sorry to hear of your grandfather's passing, also.
Welcome to the Forum. Many people here, not me, are very well-versed in S&Ws, as well as most any gun, or knife, you can lay on them! Peace!