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S&W Antiques S&W Lever Action Pistols, Tip-Up Revolvers, Top-Break Revolvers, and ALL Single Shots


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Old 01-20-2022, 02:22 PM
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Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel  
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Default Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel

I was watching this auction on GB, sold after only a couple days for buy it now price of $1,999.99. The pistol had a re-work star on the front strap below the serial number, the accompanying S&W Letter could not confirm a barrel length for when it was originally shipped. The seller showed a closeup of the latch serial number which matched the frame, but the barrel is not numbered, as shown. The seller indicated the barrel was original based on the latch number matching, the barrel is a correct six inch as shown, any thoughts? I thought the price a bit much, myself, all things considered.
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Old 01-20-2022, 02:49 PM
mmaher94087 mmaher94087 is online now
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It's possible that the rework star was to fit the 6"barrel. I'm personally leery of unnumbered barrels.
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Old 01-20-2022, 04:38 PM
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Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel  
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What does the letter say? Post an image if one exists. I can read about an Olympic barrel available on this model in the letter and maybe were not all numbered, plus do not know if that gun has one or not?? I see 1920s target stocks and there was a 1920 and a 1924 Olympics at the time this model was available. That serial number was right at the end of production.
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Old 01-20-2022, 05:36 PM
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Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel  
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If the stocks are original to the gun, it is very likely refinished
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Old 01-20-2022, 06:59 PM
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Default 6 inch ss

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol777gunnerz View Post
I was watching this auction on GB, sold after only a couple days for buy it now price of $1,999.99. The pistol had a re-work star on the front strap below the serial number, the accompanying S&W Letter could not confirm a barrel length for when it was originally shipped. The seller showed a closeup of the latch serial number which matched the frame, but the barrel is not numbered, as shown. The seller indicated the barrel was original based on the latch number matching, the barrel is a correct six inch as shown, any thoughts? I thought the price a bit much, myself, all things considered.
single line address older barrell ????
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Old 01-20-2022, 07:24 PM
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Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel  
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Default info

As in the original post, there was no info on the barrel length when it was shipped.
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Old 01-20-2022, 08:00 PM
mmaher94087 mmaher94087 is online now
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Every time I look at the first photo, the bluing between the frame and barrel look to be two shades of blue. Is it the lighting, camera angle or are they different colors?
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Old 01-20-2022, 08:38 PM
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Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidd View Post
single line address older barrell ????
By the 1920s, the patent dates disappeared on the top-break models still in production. I have 32 Safety, 3rd Model revolvers that only have the single line address just like the SS barrel. 38 Safety 5th Models also dropped the patent dates. Maybe the late 3rd Model SS did the same thing? The stocks are worn so maybe cleaned and a dull oil finish was applied some time ago.

I see no reason to suspect that there is anything special about the pistol, other than the fact that a 6" barrel is uncommon and the standard barrel for the 3rd Model was only a 10". Of course, if any other barrel length was in the factory, it could have been special ordered. The rib stamp is centered, so the barrel has not been cut.

By the very end of manufacture, within less than 200 serial numbers from the end of production in 1923, just about anything was possible leaving the factory. I recall that the company had a very large number of left-over barrels into the 1970s that were sold off in-the-white to an individual who then sold them all over time. I would not automatically say that barrel did not start life on the frame, but without documentation, the short barrel would not command much of a premium.

Supica states that 6" and 8" were scarce in this model, so maybe part of the value is in the barrel length?? Supica's 4th states that a next to new condition is worth $2000 with a 10" barrel. Looks like a high price to pay without documentation.
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:06 PM
mrcvs mrcvs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmaher94087 View Post
Every time I look at the first photo, the bluing between the frame and barrel look to be two shades of blue. Is it the lighting, camera angle or are they different colors?
I noticed the same thing.

My guess is that this is likely a six inch barrel, as originally manufactured, that was later fitted to a frame and latch with matching serial numbers. The bluing doesnít quite match. The missing serial number on the barrel strongly suggests a later fitting to this frame outside of the factory.
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:59 PM
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Default Altered?

That historical letter also looks strange to me. I wonder if we can all take a closer look at the auction? This is a modern age. High tech printers can alter just about anything.

Front sight is copper color. Edges are not smooth and itís too wide for a target sight.

Barrel appears to have a single digit, not unlike barrels that were never mounted.

Murph
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Old 01-21-2022, 06:13 AM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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Both my 6" and 8" 3rd Models (#'s 4807 & 4826) were all numbers matching, single line address pistols. Both were completed in 1911 (May 9, and June 21, respectively), and shipped on November 11, 1915 and June 24, 1911 respectively. (The auction house hype has the 6" as part of the factory collection (S&W Office Display)-----Jinks says otherwise). Both were essentially as new, and sold for $4000 each coming up three years ago.

Ralph Tremaine

As a belated aside, while it's noted the front sight on this pistol is "too wide", my 8" had a Patridge------which I believe would be wider.

As another belated aside, Gary (glowe) wonders if this barrel is an Olympic barrel. If (BIG IF) the barrel is original to the frame then Jinks says it's an Olympic barrel. His EXACT words on the subject: "This model after serial number 9548 was available with a special barrel which is called the Olympic barrel." In the same letter he goes on to say, "The total production of Olympic barrels is 2093 units." Now, if we hop over to N&J, we find the last serial number of a 3rd Model is 11641. Then when we do the math, we find 11641 minus 2093 equals 9548. Then, in the same letter, he goes on to say, "They were also supplied on special request and are found throughout the production series as replacement barrels."

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Old 01-21-2022, 12:42 PM
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Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel Opinion's On Sold 3rd Model S.S.& 6 Inch Barrel  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rct269 View Post
Both my 6" and 8" 3rd Models (#'s 4807 & 4826) were all numbers matching, single line address pistols.
Glad to know this. I can add this model to my notes about single line address top-breaks. My guess is that it may have started with the introduction of this model in 1909?? The single line address on the 32 Safety 3rd started in 1909 and the 38 Safety 5th stated in 1907. Neal & Jinks book indicated that the the 32 DA 5th and the 38 DA 5th went to a single line address when they started manufacture in 1909 as well.
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Old 01-21-2022, 12:55 PM
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I had a 3rd Mod Single shot, with an 8" barrel, that was numbered differently from frame. It was S/N 8694 and was not Olympic chamber. Roy had told me it was a 2nd Mod barrel on a 3rd Mod frame. Any combination seems to be possible with these guns.
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Old 01-21-2022, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H Richard View Post
I had a 3rd Mod Single shot, with an 8" barrel, that was numbered differently from frame. It was S/N 8694 and was not Olympic chamber. Roy had told me it was a 2nd Mod barrel on a 3rd Mod frame. Any combination seems to be possible with these guns.
Was the bottom of the barrel lug ground flat--------or "fancy flat"---a la the typical 3rd Model (flat with a chamfered perimeter, and an oval depression milled in the center)?

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 01-21-2022, 02:12 PM
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Default 6" Target barrel

Here is my 6" target barrel. Notice the front Lyman "Target Sight". I personally have never seen anyone use a utility type wide front sight seen on this auction gun as a "Target" shooting sight.

Primarily due to a utility front sight "covering" the target at 20 yards. The Target is 2" in diameter. That requires a small, thin front sight or you will cover the target. Every match that I attended and every shooter that I knew and witnessed used this type seen in the photo's or a straight very thin blade.


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