No. 2 Army, question on serial number, >> stock # matches

digi-shots · #1 06-10-2022, 04:53 PM

How were the serial numbers applied on the No. 2 Army models…were they rolled stamped or was each number individually stamped?

Here’s a model no. 2 that belongs to a friend of mine. He asked me if I had ever seen one stamped like this.

Thanks for your comments!

glowe · #2 06-10-2022, 05:54 PM

I like the zip tie to protect from someone grabbing it who happens to have 6 32 Rimfire cartridges in their pocket

That is a very unusual mistake in the stamping of the serial number. Numbers appear to be well aligned, but the "2" is upside down!!

I also would ask your friend to remove the right stock and copy down the serial number that is stamped on the back.

gmborkovic · #3 06-10-2022, 07:30 PM

OH MY, a little tipsy that Monday morn after New Year party.

glowe · #4 06-10-2022, 08:07 PM

Assuming the serial number is in the 32,000 range, the gun would be considered a Civil War era revolver. 35,XXX shipped in March, 1865.

The end of the Civil War was April, 1865, so anything made after March of that year would have not made it to the war effort before April. Supica/Nahas SCSW4 book hints that any Model 2 under around 40,000 would be considered as eligible for Civil War issue. SCSW4 also states that Model 2 1864 production ended with 29,359, and 1865 production ended with 48,475.

digi-shots · #5 06-10-2022, 08:50 PM

Thanks for all the comments. I think the last time the gun was out of his safe was for a gun show and zip ties were required… he just never got around to taking it off.

Were the serial numbers “rolled” on or individually stamped.. I’m guessing that each digit was individually stamped, otherwise there would be a whole bunch of 32,xxx guns with an upside down “2”.

Being that it is Civil War “era”, does anyone have a guesstimate of value?

Does anyone have a similar model that they’ve lettered? Just wonder what kind of ship to destination it might show.

BMur · #6 06-10-2022, 10:26 PM

I for one would like to see more photo's of the serial number please. The "single" photo has a glare around the number that is odd. It looks like the number is "in a hole" or concave surface. That suggests it's been renumbered after the original number was removed. I don't see how anyone can comment on one photo. I don't like those lines next to the number either. I'm not convinced that's an original serial number based on one photo in odd lighting.

How about an angular shot that shows the flat of the grip frame or lack there of at the serial number location?

To be honest, the die numbers look odd to me. I can't comment more without more photo's.

The best thing to do is look at another gun in that serial number range and compare die stamps. They should match this gun in size, design, and location. I also thought that by this serial number range they were stamped more towards the middle of the grip frame base. I know, you guys don't like doing homework. I like to stand on more solid ground before I make a comment on a serial number stamp.

Murph

digi-shots · #7 06-10-2022, 10:48 PM

Here are a few more shots that I took today. There was glare hitting the bottom of the butt and I tried shooting from angle to show the depth of the number.

I’ll see about taking some more shots this weekend and take the grips off too.

BMur · #8 06-10-2022, 11:11 PM

Hi Linda,
Thank You for posting additional photo's. I also did a quick serial number die comparison and I'm satisfied that it's original. I guess an original screw up with the 2.

Notice in the photo's the gun that is close to yours in serial number? That's the trick when confirming legit stamps. It's beyond difficult to fake original numbers. Notice the gun that's close to yours has the identical number 7. Also the dot at the top of the 3 leg? Also the reversed 6-9 are also identical stamps. In addition to the identical 0. The serial numbers are also placed in the same location.
So, it's right.

Also, notice that just a little later they centered the stamp? I wasn't sure when that happened. Had to do a little homework. Nice gun.

Murph

iby · #9 06-11-2022, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digi-shots

Thanks for all the comments. I think the last time the gun was out of his safe was for a gun show and zip ties were required… he just never got around to taking it off.

Were the serial numbers “rolled” on or individually stamped.. I’m guessing that each digit was individually stamped, otherwise there would be a whole bunch of 32,xxx guns with an upside down “2”.

Being that it is Civil War “era”, does anyone have a guesstimate of value?

Does anyone have a similar model that they’ve lettered? Just wonder what kind of ship to destination it might show.

it looks like a pretty nice example.
I would guess around $1500 if it is mechanically fine

digi-shots · #10 06-11-2022, 06:44 AM

Murph, thanks for the additional info. I don’t know when the numbers were centered.. I have a later No. 2 and the numbers are centered and seem to have a different font. I did some searching on the forum last night and did find a number close to this one and looked like same font, it was also off to one side (see pics of this plus pic of my later No. 2).

I do want to the grips off and just double check the numbers to make sure that second digit is a 2.

Iby, thanks. I’ll check it’s function, etc. Do you think having that reversed number hurts the value or just makes it “different”?

glowe · #11 06-11-2022, 09:42 AM

I do not think an upside down number affects the value. There might be a few collectors out there that want to own oddities, but this was just a simple mistake. I also do not think that revolver would sell for anywhere near $1500 in today's market. Demand is low, ammunition is unavailable, way too many are available for sale every day. Similar earlier specimen recently sold for $562 on GB. It does have a lanyard ring, likely post-factory which could de-value the gun some, but still some bright bluing visible.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

digi-shots · #12 06-11-2022, 10:16 AM

Thanks Gary, I appreciate it. I thought Civil War collectibles had dropped a bit from where they were a few years ago. From what I’ve read most of these No. 2’s were shipped to a distributor in NY.

red9 · #13 06-11-2022, 10:31 AM

Linda,

To me, the area of the serial number appears slightly depressed. Put a straight edge across and see if there is any gap under it. Being married to a questioned document examiner, I asked for a second opinion. She had two observations:

The number was hand stamped, based on a double struck "8" and a deeper on the top "0."

There are apparent differences in the font, in particular the "7."

Both observations may be influenced by lighting and wear.

Bob

mrcvs · #14 06-11-2022, 12:46 PM

Pull the stocks and see what the serial number is. That might provide some answers.

digi-shots · #15 06-11-2022, 04:03 PM

Stock numbers match.
This time the assembler didn’t flip the number 2.

mrcvs · #16 06-11-2022, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digi-shots

Stock numbers match.
This time the assembler didn’t flip the number 2.

Well, there’s your answer!

glowe · #17 06-11-2022, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digi-shots

Stock numbers match.
This time the assembler didn’t flip the number 2.

Glad you followed my advise.

I have no idea what the serial stamping process was in the 1860s. Maybe an early style of roll stamping with hand set numbers making is easy to put one in upside down. I don't think that they were ever stamped with hand number sets, so alignment indicates an appliance of some sorts was used.

digi-shots · #18 06-11-2022, 07:29 PM

Thanks, Gary. You know if I was at a show and was contemplating buying it, I would follow my usual prelim checks: grips, bore, finish, over polishing etc. Since this was just a quick look at the serial number with backwards “2” I just ignored my usual “rules”.

Don’t laugh but one time I was so excited when I saw an “old” Ladysmith that I almost bought it and hadn’t realized it was missing the forcing cone. I think it had cracked and the seller just cut it out!

BMur · #19 06-11-2022, 07:44 PM

That’s not funny. Especially if you don’t notice it til you get home.

Murph

first-model · #20 06-11-2022, 09:07 PM

Linda, I've seen one or two other tip-ups with inverted numbers in the serial number. Mistakes happened; I had a S&W top-break revolver that had a slightly mismatched serial number on the barrel latch. Someone had transposed two of the numbers by accident.

Obviously I wasn't around to see these frames get serialized, but the numbers are consistently aligned well enough to suggest that there was some sort of stamping tool (perhaps operated by a foot pedal?) that held the numbers, which were probably just slid in from the bottom. Years ago when businesses used a lot more rubber stamps, you could buy kits with a "blank" stamp and little letters and numbers that could be pressed in. I suspect it was much the same at the factory, and it would have been easy to invert a number. Mistakes like this were probably caught pretty quickly, which is why all of the guns in the 32,XXX range wouldn't have an inverted two. Or maybe a lot of them do and nobody has ever looked closely enough to notice. Stranger things have happened.

I would also venture to guess that the frames were stamped late in the manufacturing process, but before the metal was annealed and finished. Ergo, the finish should be consistent inside of the serial number digits.

Mike