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  #1  
Old 10-21-2008, 07:06 PM
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I came across a 2nd Model Single Shot Model 1891 in 32 S&W caliber. The barrel is numbered to the frame. The SCSW says that the 2nd Model was only made in 22 caliber, but that some will show up with 1st Model barrels on 2nd Model frames. Does anyone have an idea how many of these were produced with the 1st Model bbls and 2nd Model frames? Do these carry an premium on the value?

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Old 10-21-2008, 07:06 PM
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I came across a 2nd Model Single Shot Model 1891 in 32 S&W caliber. The barrel is numbered to the frame. The SCSW says that the 2nd Model was only made in 22 caliber, but that some will show up with 1st Model barrels on 2nd Model frames. Does anyone have an idea how many of these were produced with the 1st Model bbls and 2nd Model frames? Do these carry an premium on the value?

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Old 10-22-2008, 07:55 AM
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Gary,

I don't know how many were produced, but I believe S&W used up the left-over 1st Model barrels on the early serial numbered 2nd models. You can tell if it's a barrel from a First Model because the top rib is marked 'Model of 91'. The 2nd and 3rd Models didn't have this marking. I would think a numbers matching 2nd Model in .32 caliber would be worth a little more than your standard .22 caliber. I know .22 LR is the most common configuration, and you don't very often see them in .32 and see even fewer in .38 S&W in the First Models, so I would think a 2nd Model in .32 is kind of unique, especially with the matching numbers. Just curious as to how long the barrel is and what type of grips it has?
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:14 AM
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It has the 91 markings on the barrel, grips are hard rubber and the barrel is 10"

Thanks for the reply
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:44 AM
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All three of these early Single Shots were available with "Options" such as Barrel and Cylinders in both .32 & .38 S&W as well as Single Shot Barrels in both .32 & .38 S&W for the 1st Model. Some of these, 1st Model guns, were offered as "Cased Sets" and there were some offered with all three barrels and I guess it was possible to also have both caliber revolver assemblies.

I know the 2nd Model also was offered with the Single Shot Barrels in both .32 & .38 S&W.

Some of these were offered as "Cased Sets" and there were some offered with all three barrels - at least in the 3rd Model.

Optional, single shot, barrels were available in 6, 8 and 10 inch lengths.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:37 AM
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As far as I know, only the First Model Single Shot, also known as the 'Model of 91' were offered with the different caliber barrels. Does anyone have any single shot barrels in .32 S&W or .38 S&W that DON'T have the 'Model of 91' marking on the top rib of the barrel? I'd be interested in knowing this because it would be the first that I have heard of these other calibers being offered with the 2nd and 3rd Model Single Shots.

As far as the barrel and cylinder being offered for the 2nd and 3rd Models, I don't believe this is right. The First Model is the only one of the three that has the cylinder recoil shield on the frame and is actually the same frame as the .38 Single Action Third Model, of which you could order the Single Shot Barrels as a set. I look forward to any other ideas or comments, as these models don't seem to get much discussion on this board.

Randy
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:46 PM
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Randy, As you may know, there are guns out there, and made up "sets," that have barrel w/o any markings on the top rib of any kind. These are unfinished surplus barrels that were sold off as scrap when the factory moved out to it's present location in 1950, from the old location on Stockbridge St. Most of these barrels were in the white and later owners had them polished, blued or nickeled, to make up a "set." You will see them in all calibers.

Last edited by opoefc; 09-07-2011 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:35 AM
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Hi,
Was looking at a First Model Single Shot.I saw the serial number on the front of the grip frame,where is the number on the barrel supposed to be?
Thanks,
Gary
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:12 AM
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Gary,

There is a serial number on the underside of the latch, and also in front of the latch on the back end of the barrel, near where the cartridge is inserted. These can be difficult to see, and sometimes a little flashlight is very handy.

I would still like to know if anyone has any of the Single Shot barrels in .32 S&W or .38 S&W without the 'Model of 91' marking. I have 6 of these barrels in the various calibers and will have to dig them out and look, but I believe they all have the 'Model of 91' stamping.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:20 PM
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This is my pistol, #sn 1992, all numbers matching (frame, latch and barrel)
The 6" barrel is marked "Model of 91" in the middle of the adress/patent marking.
According to the literature (S&N, N&J), it is not possible to find Second Model in a different caliber than the .22 LR.
We should note that this frame could only shoot centerfire cartridges, unless the barrels were chambered (or sleeved) to .22 eccentrically (unlikely, right?)
The triggerguard spur and frontsight appears to be original, too. The grips (with internal lead weight), unfortunatly not.



Last edited by 500SWArg; 09-07-2011 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:16 AM
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To 500SWArg- I don't believe that the front sight and trigger guard spur are original, although one can never be sure in the absence of a factory letter. Don't regret the grips not being factory. To me at least, well done modifications to make the gun a better target pistol do not lower it's value. If the work is attributed to a well known source such as Roper or King, the value will go up. Enjoy a beautiful and rare single shot.

Bob
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
We should note that this frame could only shoot centerfire cartridges, unless the barrels were chambered (or sleeved) to .22 eccentrically (unlikely, right?)
I thought that eccentric bores at the breech end was the way the .22 single shot barrels were made, so they could be used on what started out as a .38 frame.
Henry Stebbins described having a 10" shortened to 7" and seeing the muzzle come out slightly off center.
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Old 09-08-2011, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
I thought that eccentric bores at the breech end was the way the .22 single shot barrels were made, so they could be used on what started out as a .38 frame.
Henry Stebbins described having a 10" shortened to 7" and seeing the muzzle come out slightly off center.
You're right, Jim
It's the only way to explain the operation of combinations set .38 SA / SingleShot .22 in the First Model with "no switch" in the hammer/firing pin (such as in Jet)
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Old 09-08-2011, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by red9 View Post
To 500SWArg- I don't believe that the front sight and trigger guard spur are original, although one can never be sure in the absence of a factory letter. Don't regret the grips not being factory. To me at least, well done modifications to make the gun a better target pistol do not lower it's value. If the work is attributed to a well known source such as Roper or King, the value will go up. Enjoy a beautiful and rare single shot.

Bob
Thank you, Bob
Although not original, is a job well done.
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:32 PM
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Default 2nd Model 1891 in .32

m-1911
What is your serial number on this .32 SS 2nd Model?
I ask because there are a few noted in the 1st model serial number range BUT with the 2nd model type flat ( no recoil shield ) frame. Seems that the examples noted so far are after the 15,000 number. One with Roper grips is serial # 23837... another with three pc. ivory grips is in the 15,000 range.

500SWArg
Those grips are so very nice!! I have some single shots with internal lead weights in custom made grips. A Roper set, and a set made by S.E. Tobias. Tobias was a custom gun maker from Ohio around 1900 to 1915. I see the craftsmanship and the feel as that of which a target shooter would have enjoyed.

Terry
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Old 09-14-2011, 05:28 PM
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Terry,
I am very happy to know that an expert like you like about these stocks.
I was a little worried about not having the original grips.
Thank you
Jorge
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 500SWArg View Post
This is my pistol, #sn 1992, all numbers matching (frame, latch and barrel)
The 6" barrel is marked "Model of 91" in the middle of the adress/patent marking.
According to the literature (S&N, N&J), it is not possible to find Second Model in a different caliber than the .22 LR.
We should note that this frame could only shoot centerfire cartridges, unless the barrels were chambered (or sleeved) to .22 eccentrically (unlikely, right?)
The triggerguard spur and frontsight appears to be original, too. The grips (with internal lead weight), unfortunatly not.


You said unfortunatly they are not original to your Single Shot. I will send you a pair of original stocks for it and pay shipping both ways.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan View Post
You said unfortunatly they are not original to your Single Shot. I will send you a pair of original stocks for it and pay shipping both ways.
Thank you, Don!
Cuando la limosna es tan grande, hasta un santo desconfía!
(When the charity is great, even a saint is suspicious)

Tell me about these grips.
Can you identify them?
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:59 PM
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If it helps you any, my .32 2nd Model single shot is serial number 3253 and has all matching numbers. It is as original as they come.
Sometimes all the recorded history does not stack up to an example that does stack up.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:39 AM
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This is my pistol, #sn 20899, and barrell 15433 in 38s&w
The 10" barrel is marked "Model of 91" in the middle of the adress/patent marking.
Completed Precision but cartridges always abiméesClick image for larger version

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Old 12-22-2011, 03:20 PM
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Good for you Don! I must have bad taste, but I do not like those giant wood stocks on that single shot. Factory grips will look much better to me, but of course, I do not own that gun, so . . .
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc View Post
Randy, As you may know, there are guns out there, and made up "sets," that have barrel w/o any markings on the top rib of any kind. These are unfinished surplus barrels that were sold off as scrap when the factory moved out to it's present location in 1950, from the old location on Stockbridge St. Most of these barrels were in the white and later owners had them polished, blued or nickeled, to make up a "set." You will see them in all calibers.
Hello
As Usual Ed is spot on with this. That said, I have a Model of 91 Barrel stamped as such in .32 S&W but it is not caliber stamped nor does it have a serial number. It came to me Blued and I had a Latch fitted to it and enjoy shooting it. It's barrel bottom is milled flat and has the circular milled out recess in the center of the barrel flat. it is of 8" Length and shoots very tight groups...
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:36 PM
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I have a S&W model 91 but thatis all I know about this gun. It's mark in tree diferent areas with the #19464, its a 22 caliber with a 10" barrel and black Grips.
Can any body tell me what its thestory of this gun
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:50 PM
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Default Extra .32 barrel

I recently bought a 10 in. 32 cal barrel, like Hammerdown's, bottom was milled flat [seen somewhere could do it so would fit 3rd model?]. The top rail is marked Model of 91, but doesn't have the Maltese Cross on each side of lettering like my 1st model does. Caliber is stamped like the 1st model but is lighter stamp & not as good a job, like it became a factory second or something, also has no serial number. No doubt sold as extra barrel.
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