Kind of like WWI wasn't WWI until there was a WWII?

Or did it become "double action" because they already called the "single actions" by that term??

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M&P Pistol and Rifle Armorer

Kind of like WWI wasn't WWI until there was a WWII?

Or did it become "double action" because they already called the "single actions" by that term??

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M&P Pistol and Rifle Armorer

WWI was The Great War until WWII. Maybe it would be the same for revolvers. If I am not mistaken, there were "self-cocking" revolvers fairly early on, which may have been in effect double action only. Perhaps the term double action was coined to describe guns that could be either manually cocked or fired with just a pull of the trigger.

Good question; hope someone smarter than me responds.

I believe that they were just refered to as 'revolvers' and perhaps by maker, such as the S&W Schofield or Russian or American, or the Colt 1873 Revolver.

Here is another question to ponder along the same lines...in the evolutionary chain, before the 'internal combustion' engine, was there ever an 'External combustion' engine? Hmm??
And, how come 'steam power' never caught on when applied to Aircraft? Seems you could land anywhere and cut down more trees to feed the boilers.
Just my ramblings.
RD

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Got a Phd from Hard Knocks U

You may have answered your own question. The steam engine indeed is an "external combustion" engine in that the energy and heat needed to produce motion comes from an outside source.

If I remember my aviation development history, there were experiments with using steam powered aircraft engines. They were found to be too heavy (poor weight/power ratio) and too low in rpm.

Todd, Everyone knows what single action revolvers and pistol were called before double actions were made. They were called "Pre-Double Actions!"

Priceless!!!

But now for the $64.00 Question: When was the 1866 Winchester called the "1866"???

When they introduced the Model 1873 in late 1873. Before that it was just the "Winchester Rifle" as Oliver Winchester had finally decided it was good enough to put his name on it instead of his factory foreman's name (the previous "Henry" rifle).

CMcDermott is correct! Now I'm wondering how many others looked at that question and Did know the answer? It was Posted for 3Hours and 40 minutes before someone tried. And, according to my check of the number of Viewer there were over 200 people who looked during that time frame.

Ed,
Classic ~ that just made my day

Giz

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Non gratum anus rodentum

Best joke in a long time!

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You're shy a few manners.

I address this question only because I have had so many "experts" testify in court as to what "double action means". I won't bore you with some of the goofiest thinking on the planet.

Originally, revolvers were either "hammer cocking", like the SAA, or "trigger cocking", like the Tranter (sp?). When Smith & Wesson (and others) combined the two systems, they were called "double action", meaning they were both trigger cocking and hammer cocking.

Over time, "trigger cocking" became "double action". This gives rise today to pistols that are DAO.

I'm not an expert on firearms, but I am on most English, especially that heard in courtrooms. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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and what his trumpet saith

Howdy

Here is an interesting quote from the glossary of the latest edition of the SCSW by Supica and Nahas that has an interesting take on the subject.

"It is sometimes thought that the double action means there are two different ways of firing the gun. However, probably the term originally meant that the trigger pull has a double mechanical action - it both cocks the hammer and releases it. In the case of revolvers, the double action trigger pull also performs the function of rotating the next chamber to be fired into alignment with the firing pin. Guns that can be operated ONLY in this mode are called Double Action Only (DAO).....A case could be made that the Traditional Double Action handgun that can be fired either single action (manually cocking the hammer) or double action (using the trigger pull to both cock the hammer and fire the gun) should be called a 'Single/double action handgun'. In fact, Traditional Double Action handguns are designated 'Single/double action' in some recent S&W literature."

Interesting food for thought on the subject.

Regarding Oliver Winchester and the name of the first two rifles his company produced:

Winchester believed in giving credit where credit was due. Thus the patents for the Henry rifle were issued with the name of the shop superintendant who invented it, even though the New Haven Arms company owned the rights to the patent.

Winchester and Henry did not part on amicable terms, there was a dispute over pay. After this unhappy dispute, while Winchester was out of the country on a European holiday Henry approached the Connecticut legislature with a proposal to amend the company's charter, taking over the company and renaming it after himself. Winchester got wind of the plot and cut his holiday short to protect his investment. It was only after this attempt at a hostile take over that Winchester renamed the company the Winchester Repeating Arms Company.

The Winchester Model of 1866 was often referred to as the Improved Henry, because of the addition of the King's Patent side loading gate. Again, Winchester gave credit to his new shop superintendant, Nelson King, including his name in the patent.

While I have 4 original colt single action armys, I am not positive, but I belive they were so marked "colt single action army" on the barrel when they 1st came out in 1872! And at that time what if any "double actions" were available then? In fact what was the very 1st double action available and when? I probley read the question and answer as a kid 55 years ago, but forgot and would have to research it.

Howdy feralmerril

The Colt SAA patent dates are Sept 19 1871, July 2 1872, and Jan 19 1875, but it was not officially introduced by Colt and adopted by the Army until 1873. Of course elements of the design go much further back, all the way back to the Paterson Colt of 1836. I can't say exactly when the name Single Action Army was coined, but I will look it up.

One early double action percussion revolver was the Star Model of 1858. The Star was made in a single action and double actinon version. The double action version was unusual, pulling the trigger back cocked the hammer and rotated the cylinder, but there was a tiny 'second' trigger mounted at the rear of the trigger guard. When the front trigger was pulled all the way back, cocking the gun and rotating the hammer, it finally shoved the tiny rear trigger back, which tripped the hammer.

Another early double action percussion revolver that preceded the SAA Model of 1873 was the Savage model of 1861. This one was really weird, I won't even attempt to describe how it worked.

You can read about both of these revolvers here:

Civil War Guns

Thanks for that lead driftwood. I have a few old ones. I have early s&w american with a bobbed barrel and a new model army remington that was redone many years ago with a king red post front sight.