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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 09-14-2009, 04:34 PM
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Hi - this pre-war K32 just cleared quarantine and is now integrated into the herd.

I thought you might like to see it. Only around 90 were made before WWII and only 3500 between 1949 and 1973. There are very few pre-war survivors that we know of, about 10 or so.

This one is unusual because of the McGivern bead front sight, hump-back hammer and the overall condition. Letter requested from Roy.

Dave

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Old 09-14-2009, 05:01 PM
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Major envy. That's a wonderful collector's piece.

I'm still a few days away from taking possession of my first postwar K-32, a Pre-16 from 1949.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:24 PM
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Dave...very nice example. I handled one similar to it at the OGCA meeting a few years ago.

Bill
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:30 PM
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Very nice Dave....but I thought you were an RM guy
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:49 PM
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I really like the hammer and that front sight.This is a gun you don't see everyday that's for sure.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:59 PM
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Dave, that is very nice! I really like the front sight.

I bet it shoots like a dream!
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:42 PM
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Wow that's one nice Smith, I am green with envy. Are you going to shoot it


Troy
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:03 PM
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Wow, thats a nice one! I need another caliber to load for like I need another hole in my head but I would love to add one of those to the safe! Thanks for shareing.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:45 PM
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Wow Dave what a nice (and rare) one. I really like the Magna's and assume they number to the piece. So, what I like about this gun is apparently they switched from the long action to short action shortly after yours was made. I've been trying to think of any other model S&W made that did that but none come to mind.
I'm sure that's the only k32 I've ever seen with a humpback.
You got a good'un.

Roger
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:51 PM
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Thanks for the comments guys. It is a good example, as good as any of my others anyway.

I don't intend to shoot this one, so I guess it's a safe queen. I do have a post war K-32 that I shoot but, in the main, most of my K-32's are collector quality only.

Before stumbling into Reg Mags I collected just K-32's. So they are really my first love :-)

Dave
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:46 PM
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Very nice Dave. That is no doubt the center of your K-32 collection.
Nice photo too. I hope you don't mind me using it as my computer's background.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:10 PM
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Hi Moosedog. It's one of the centerpieces for sure. I've got 4 pre-wars at present. They're all nice, not sure I could choose between them. Some more pics below.

I also have an 8 3/8" barrel post war gun. It's the only one we know of. It was purchased for the then secretary of the NRA as a retirement present and engraved with his name at the factory. The NRA asked that it have an 8 3/8" barrel, so it went back to the factory and one was fitted.

The gun has been up in Oshkosh WI for some gunsmithing for 4 YEARS now! I'm planning to get it back in the next few weeks, one way or another.

Enjoy.

Dave

Pre-war 675706


Pre-war 677428


Pre-war 681766


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Old 09-15-2009, 07:24 AM
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Hello Dave
Very Nice Rare Pre-War example. I had this one "Visit" me a Couple of years ago, for a Picture and show & tell session. Unfortunately, It was Not for Sale... Hammerdown





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Old 09-15-2009, 01:43 PM
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Dave,
Treasure! truly outstanding! Only 4 down, 86 to go!ahaha thanks for sharing. I was at a gun shop in Missouri last week and they had a Mod 58 marked sapd and then produced the letter for it and guess where it was sent-Legendary Firearms, The Woodlands, TX. I started laughing and the guy thought I was nuts until I told him he must have gotten the gun from Lyle and he looked it up and said that is where he got it! He is everywhere!
thansk,
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:40 PM
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David Carroll's latest catalog has two of thse gems and both are in the five figure catagory!
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Old 09-15-2009, 03:29 PM
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Beautiful guns, Dave. I can see why you collect them. Heck, I've never ever seen one in the flesh.

Thanks,

Jerry
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:55 PM
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Thanks guys.

Bill - I heard from Lyle over the weekend. He sent me an email about a couple of Valmet's that I'm selling for a friend. He's seems to be keeping well anyway.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:28 AM
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I enjoy how sleek they are in comparision to the 16-4 with the full underlugged barrel. These pictures are telling me to find a K32 next!!
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Only around 90 were made before WWII
Dave

Does this include the ones made before WW1 ?

Regards, Mike Priwer
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:41 PM
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Probably Mike, as WWI was before WWII, at least it was when I was at school.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:50 PM
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The little brother to your K32....:~)
Matt

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Old 09-16-2009, 11:55 PM
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Dave,
That will be a neat piece to display in 2011.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:59 AM
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Nice gun Matt - 32 S&W Long Regulation Police? I've always loved .32's, don't ask me why. :-)

Peyton - I shoot my 16-4's regularly. I had Hamilton Bowen ream the cylinders out to take the .327 Magnum rounds. They were always accurate but now they're tack drivers. Great shooting guns in both 4" and 6" but a little heavy for carry purposes, sadly.

Don - I'm thinking that. Bring them all up to Orlando (a whole 90 mins drive) and let them see the light of day for once. I still need to find that elusive 4" version though. Very hard gun to locate.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlindrb View Post
Nice gun Matt - 32 S&W Long Regulation Police? I've always loved .32's, don't ask me why. :-)

Peyton - I shoot my 16-4's regularly. I had Hamilton Bowen ream the cylinders out to take the .327 Magnum rounds. They were always accurate but now they're tack drivers. Great shooting guns in both 4" and 6" but a little heavy for carry purposes, sadly.

Don - I'm thinking that. Bring them all up to Orlando (a whole 90 mins drive) and let them see the light of day for once. I still need to find that elusive 4" version though. Very hard gun to locate.
No its like one of 191 .32 HE target models....
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontiaker View Post
The little brother to your K32....:~)
Matt

Matt, what am I looking at? A transitional .32 RP target revolver with a four inch barrel and an integral front sight? Or would that be considered an adjustable-sight .32 HE? I didn't know something like that even existed. S/N between 560xxx and 600xxx? The small logo on the left side seems to say pre-1938, but the barrel and ejector rod suggest 1947-49.

Whatever it is, it makes my heart leap up. Kind of like a "big-bore" Kit Gun. Neat!

ADDED: OK, question answered while I was composing my post. Can you mention the S/N, or at least most of it?
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:10 PM
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Dave

Well - indeed WW1 comes before WW2. But the question was a bit
different.

I was asking if the estimate of 90 pre-WW2 K-32's includes the ones
made before WW1. 90 is generally taken to be the ones made in the
1930's ; I was wondering if you had some new information.

Unless you have some recent information, that I would like to know,
the number made before WW1 is unknown. All that I am aware of is
the two different pre-WW1 serial number groups in which these guns
appear. One group is around 1910, the other around 1916.

Here are a couple of pictures of one from about 1910 :






There is also the model of 1896 K-frames, which are 32-long. I exclude
these, as they are, in my view, very different guns.

Its also not known if there are any other groups of these guns - unless
you have come into this information - between 1910 and 1916 . The
only way they come to light, it seems, is when someone letters one of
them.

Regards, Mike Priwer

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Old 09-17-2009, 06:33 PM
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Mike, I can't find the thread from several months ago in which you discussed this "first K-32." Can you bump it back up? I'd like to read it again and get all the details. I remember you had it worked on in Dave Chicoine's shop.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:40 PM
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Steve - I agree, and Mike knows this to be true. He just likes to raise this topic now and again.

For the uninformed, what Mike is discussing is an early K frame .32 HE Target. However, if he wants to call it a K-32 who are we to argue? Of course, he's in danger of confusing the hell out of those who are still learning but that's not really important, apparently.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:04 PM
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Steve

Roy Jinks thinks that the 32-longs made in the Model of 1896 are the
very very first K-32's ! When I wrote that story some months ago, about
the first K-32, Roy sent me a note and a picture of the 1896 K-32 in the
museum, noting that he felt that IT was the first K-32 .

The factory made target K-frames in 32-long much earlier than 1938.
Somewhere around that time was the first occurance of the gun in the
All Model Circular, but they were made much earlier. It's somewhat
surprising that, as late as 1938, they elected to put the item into the
Circular, given the earlier production of it.

657379 is a 6" blue 32-long target delivered to Longmeadow Police, MA
on June 23, 1936. At the time Roy wrote the letter for Dave Damkar,
he indicated that it was the first K-32 target. In retrospect, the much
earlier 1910 and 1916 guns had not yet surfaced, and this gun must have
been the first K-32 that Roy lettered.

A K-32 is K-frame revolver chambered in 32-long. Most of us think
it should be a target revolver - I'm not aware of any pre-WW2 K-32's
in M&P configuration, although there may be some in the known 1910
serial number series.

My comments were not in jest, as some might think. It was a serious
inquiry about a claim that roughly 90 K-32's were made pre-WW2. I believe
that claim to be incorrect, because of the earlier 1910 and 1916 guns,
and that is why I phrased the question the way that I did.

Regards, Mike Priwer
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:27 PM
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David

I tried using the search function on this forum, but was not able to find
that thread.

Dave Chicoine Jr did some clean-up work on the gun. It had been
exposed, for years, to a smoky environment, probably a mantle over
a smoky fireplace, and creosote had accumulated on the surface.
The gun was soaked in a solvent for several days, to neutralize and
stabilize the finish. It also needed a new mainspring and firing pin
and fitting the gold medallion grips. Otherwise, its all original,
including the noticeable dent in the sideplate.

The front sight is a Lyman gold bead blade, and the bead appears to
be real gold ! It seems to glow, even in the dark .

Later, Mike Priwer
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:34 PM
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Mike

To reply to your original question. I have no information on numbers of any pre WWI K Frame 32 HE Targets.

I have always wanted to locate a K Frame M&P Target in .32 S&W Long, but they don't often surface.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:01 AM
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Dave, that is a very nice K-32, it looks in excellent shape. The barrel and the stocks on the pre-war sure do set it apart from the rest.

Rod
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:05 AM
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I agree with Steve 100%. When they showed up in the catalogs as K-32s then that would be the period guns that it applied to, not earlier ones.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:05 AM
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Beautiful! Wish I could run across a K-32 to go with my K-38.
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:39 AM
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I've reread what Mike posted and can only conclude he's trying to open up a discussion about date range and the estimated number of Pre-WW2 K-32's...Not to conjure up confusing and contradicting terms as one member here has spun it in a earlier post.

So what's the outfall of such a discussion. Folks get to see both sides of the conversation and reasoning behind how some collectors form their opinions. Good stuff, especially from the perspective of a newer member trying to add some information to their collecting pursuits.

If Roy Jinks is of the opinion that the first K-32's pre-date the generally excepted date range of manufacture, then that adds some weight to Mike's position.

Sometimes we have to get are heads out of the books and do some free thinking and questioning. If we all agreed to go by only what we know today to be true....this gun collecting concept would be a very dull and uninteresting pursuit.

giz
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:27 AM
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Steve and Giz

This is turning into a longer story than I have time for, right now !
However, let me offer a couple of comments.

There are different ways to think about the same gun. At one point,
a few years ago, a round-butt .38 M&P target, from about 1908, lettered
as a late-shipped 1902 . Some years later, a very similar gun , and
slightly earlier gun, lettered as a 1905 . From my studies of round-butt
K-frames, they were designated 1902's well into the 1930's . Still in
all, from a perspective of trying to have a consistent basis for engineering
changes, calling them all 1905's is understandable. Otherwise, the
round-butts are out-of-sync with the square butts, vis-a-vis changes.

I argue, and I think the historians comments support my notion, that
32-long K-frames are K-32's . It is true that in 1896, and 1910 and 1916
and 1936, when they made 32-long K-frames, they were not cataloged.
Generally, they were special chamberings of the standard K-frame
revolvers. In the records, they are not named, but described as such.

For some reason, after most-recently producing 32-long K-frames for
two years (from 1936) they cataloged the revolver as a K-32 target,
about in 1938 . I argue that this name retro-actively applies to the
identical guns made in 1936, and 1916, and 1910. Those earlier
32-long K-frame targets were the special-orders that led to finally
cataloging them in 1938. My 1938 All-Model Circular does not list it -
they first show up in the 1940 Circular.

When I wrote that story about the First K-32, it was my intention to
submit that to the S&WCA Journal, for publication. I knew there were
several ( 5 to 10, maybe) other 32-long K-frames made in the same
serial number range (1910), but it wasn't known if any of those were
target. I asked the historian if my gun was the first one of that
caliber, at that time in 1910.

He wrote back, with the subject of his note as

" First K-32 Seven Shot "

He went on to decribe the gun as a

Model of 1896 Seven shot K-22 in .32 S&W long,

and included a picture.

My point is that if he thinks that was the first K-32, then I feel very
comfortable in saying that the 32-longs of 1910, 1916,and 1936 are
K-32's .

Regards, Mike Priwer

Last edited by mikepriwer; 09-18-2009 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:01 PM
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Dave B

Regarding early .32 M&P's, I find in my notes the following :

s/n 653372 shipped March 13, 1936 .38 M&P chambered in .32 long .

Guess I was aware of one, after all !

Regards, Mike Priwer

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Old 09-18-2009, 06:26 PM
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Mike

There are also several guns fom the 30's that Roy has lettered as .38 M&P Targets chambered for 32 S&W Long. Some of these date from the late 30's and early 40's, which is long after the K-32 model was actually designated.

This is one of those pointless arguments we have occasionally. It's my belief that K-32's are those guns described as such by the factory, not just any target revolver chambered in .32 S&W Long. I realize we will disagree on this point, but this won't be the first time we've agreed to differ.

Does any of this discussion detract from early target guns chambered in .32 S&W Long? Absolutely not! I love them and wish to own them all. Send them to me NOW please! But, in my humble opinion, they're never going to be a K-32.

Regards.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:29 AM
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I do not understand why they quit making these fine revolvers, did the demand die when the .357 came out??
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:49 AM
EdwardM EdwardM is offline
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I wonder if there is any chance S&W may again offer the K32 as part of their "classic" series?

I tend to doubt it as most folks seem to favor more powerful offerings but I'm interested in Bullseye shooting and I'd love to have one of these!

Even at the prices they ask for the "classics" this is one model that would likely be lower than the older version.

Ned
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peyton View Post
I do not understand why they quit making these fine revolvers, did the demand die when the .357 came out??
.327, do you mean? It's true the .32 Long is kind of wimpy compared to more recent magnum versions, but the problem is that S&W .32 offerings in any chambering just didn't sell very well in the K-frame. According to SCSW, fewer than 4000 K-32 Masterpieces and Model 16s were manufactured between 1947 and 1974, when production was suspended. In 1989 the Model 16 was re-introduced as the 16-4 chambered in .32 H&R Magnum, but it was discontinued again about four years later with fewer than 9000 manufactured.

Compare this to the .32-20, which was manufactured from 1899 to 1940; the company turned out nearly 150,000 of those. That sounds impressive, but it is still only a small percentage of the .38 Special K-frame production in the same period. The company pretty clearly said something about the market when it decided not to reintroduce a .32-20 after WW2. Looks like they were willing to go with a target .32 on the K-frame in the hopes it would do as well as the K-22, but that never happened.

The company was very successful with its I-frame and later J-frame .32 offerings, but it turned out that only the afficionados would go for it in the larger K-frame guns.

I should disclose that I kind of ignored .32 revolvers for a long time because I considered them unnecessary in-betweeners. But I have recently picked up a .32 Regulation Police (I-frame) and a shooter-grade .32-20 that I feel great fondness for. In the next few days I will take delivery of a K-32 (Pre-16) that will complete my Masterpiece troika (22/32/38). So I am coming belatedly to like guns in this caliber.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:38 PM
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David is quite correct. S&W manufactured the K-32 for almost 30 years in total - 1936/7-1941 and again 1947-1973. During this time only circa 3,720 were produced (around 90 pre-war and 3,630 post-war).

Please note these estimated production numbers refer to the revolver designated as a "K-32 Masterpiece" and not any other K frame target guns, before we re-open any cans of worms.

I believe it's by far the lowest level of production for any revolver offered on the price list for that length of time. Today they are rare guns but, strangely, are often found in excellent condition. I guess this was because many were purchased by dedicated off-hand target shooters - who look after their pistols - and because the .32 S&W Long cartridge doesn't exactly hammer a revolver to death.

When you ask why they didn't catch on... I understand they were offered to address the target matches then shot at Camp Perry and similar. This is not my area of expertise (and I'm sure someone can correct me) but I think there were 3 matches to be shot. S&W's idea was to offer the K-22, K-32 and K-38 for the 3 matches. The advantage to a target shooter being each of the guns "felt" exacty the same as the others. The problem was that the weight of the early guns was different - a K-22 has less metal removed from cylinder and barrel than a K-38 for example. So, I believe, S&W later countered this problem (circa 1949) by bringing out a wide rib version of the guns. The idea being that the rib size varied and equalized the weights of the 3 guns.

However, the idea of the 3 K frames never quite took off. S&W sold lots of K-22's as great target and plinking guns, cheap to run etc. The K-38 became the defacto centerfire target revolver for most club shooters, the venerable (and excellent) Colt 1911 being the other weapon of choice.

I don't think 32's have been big sellers in the US since the turn of the last centry (1900). They're not as cheap to plink with as a .22, and do not sufficent stopping power for self defense. Me, I like them, in 32 Long, 32 H&R Magnum and in the new 327 Mag. I think they're accurate and fun to shoot. However, I'm a big reloader and .22's and very difficult to reload... :-)

I have always been surprised that S&W marketed the K-32 for as long as they did. Very glad, but surprised. Secretly I've always wondered if they were just using up parts they'd manufactured! Sorry, unfair dig at S&W. :-) I'm not sure if the .327 is going to catch on, I keep hoping for the rumored S&W .327 NightGuard revolver to hit the pricelist, but I haven't seen it yet. Until it does I'll just make do with my reamed out 16-4's.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:12 PM
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Mr. Priwer,

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I was wondering if you have the pic of the 7 shot pre-K32 model of 1896 available to share? I was under the impression that the only 7 shooter hand ejector S&W made was the M-Frame, though thinking about it 7 shots of 32 in a K-Frame seems like it would work.

Many Thanks
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Old 04-01-2019, 04:08 PM
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I am Brazilian and I live in Brazil and I have a smith and weeson 32 identical to that of the photo. now I'm thinking how he came here, I saw that he uses us he costs 12 thousand dollars. he and other weapons are in my family for several generations.
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Old 04-01-2019, 04:52 PM
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I am Brazilian and I live in Brazil and I have a smith and weeson 32 identical to that of the photo. now I'm thinking how he came here, I saw that he uses us he costs 12 thousand dollars. he and other weapons are in my family for several generations.
Welcome to the Forum.

If you are able, please post pictures. We love pictures!
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:16 PM
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Before stumbling into Reg Mags I collected just K-32's. So they are really my first love :-)



Dave
Darned hoarder.....beautiful revolver, congrats....make my ugly post war look even worse....

Robert
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:13 AM
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Now that this neat old thread is alive and kicking again, I've got a couple of questions and comments. First, to friend DCW, did you ever post a family portrait of the K-Masterpiece Troika you assembled way back in '09? I don't remember ever seeing it, but sure would like to.

Merlindrb, I haven't heard much from you lately, but if you're still around, a small correction to what you wrote back in '09... the 3 gun matches you referred to were for a 22, a centerfire pistol, and a 45. After Charlie Askins' venture with a custom centerfire 22 Woodsman, the rules were adjusted to have a minimum caliber of 32. Therefore, the "middle" gun could be a 32 or a 38, but there was no way you would be shooting both in the same event, so many folks went with the 38 and only the hard corps seemed to purchase the 32... it would have been redundant to have both. Of course the 45 leg of the match frequently involved an accurized 1911 of some stripe, and a lot of shooters found they could do just as well by shooting the same 45 in both the CF and the 45 legs, reducing the number of guns they had to buy, feed, and carry. This put more downward pressure on the popularity of the K-38, and the K-32 just fell away with it.

I hate to admit it, but the 38 Special has a lot more general usability for a variety of applications than the 32 S&W Long, at least from a practical standpoint, so when it came time to spend hard earned 1950s dollars, it just made more sense to buy a K-38 or a Combat Masterpiece in 38 rather than its "weak sister" 32. I don't want to give up my 32s, you understand, but I do understand the thought pattern!

Froggie
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