gjamison
SWCA Member
i was wondering if anyone had any picture's of a model 11, your any other information. thanks
Info on s&w model 11 needed
- Thread starter gjamison
- Start date
Thuer
Member
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Were any actual Model 11s made?
Thuer
Member
The shown revolver is a pre model 11. It is a Victory.
According to the Standard Catalogue are numbred revolvers seldom seen.
Last is produced 1965.
According to the Standard Catalogue are numbred revolvers seldom seen.
Last is produced 1965.
Smith &W
Member
Yes, I have actually owned two , both marked in the yoke 11-4
Rigmover
Member
Model 10's were .38 Specials.
Model 11's were 38 S&W crt's both built on a k-Frame.
Model 11's were 38 S&W crt's both built on a k-Frame.
I have a 11-4, shipped to "the Hansen Felion Co., Canada, no lisitng of city." accordng to the factory letter, and it was shipped on Jan 18, 1963. The revolver has a lanyard ring, and looks like a standard barrel model 10 except for the barrel markings. I will try to upload a photo.
I have not had any luck tracking down the Hansen Felion Company, the gun was reimported to the
states and sold to me through a dealer in Florida.
The factory letter states that total production of pre and model number guns since 1953 has been 15461 revolvers, and few were made after the 1957 date when the model number system was adopted. The SCSW mentions some produced, for the South Africian Police (stamped SAP); some of those revolvers, apparently procuction overuns, were sold off by S&W in the 1990's by auction. Some of the other members can shed more light on those.
I have not had any luck tracking down the Hansen Felion Company, the gun was reimported to the
states and sold to me through a dealer in Florida.
The factory letter states that total production of pre and model number guns since 1953 has been 15461 revolvers, and few were made after the 1957 date when the model number system was adopted. The SCSW mentions some produced, for the South Africian Police (stamped SAP); some of those revolvers, apparently procuction overuns, were sold off by S&W in the 1990's by auction. Some of the other members can shed more light on those.
Last edited:
TomcatPC
US Veteran
Hello
The markings on the barrel...the "178 gr"...I take it that this revolver's sights are zeroed for the .380" Mk.II Cartridge, which had the 178 grain bullet?
I think the original British/British Empire revolver cartridge from WWII Era was the .380" (.38 S&W), with the original .380" Mk.I cartridge being the .380"/200, and the .380" Mk.II being the later metal jacket ball 178 grain projectile.
Does anyone know if the War-time Victory Model revolvers were zeroed for the .380"/200, or the later 178 grain bullet?
Thanks
Mark
The markings on the barrel...the "178 gr"...I take it that this revolver's sights are zeroed for the .380" Mk.II Cartridge, which had the 178 grain bullet?
I think the original British/British Empire revolver cartridge from WWII Era was the .380" (.38 S&W), with the original .380" Mk.I cartridge being the .380"/200, and the .380" Mk.II being the later metal jacket ball 178 grain projectile.
Does anyone know if the War-time Victory Model revolvers were zeroed for the .380"/200, or the later 178 grain bullet?
Thanks
Mark
Tom,
I was bored tonight and your questions got me thinking, so I measured the front sights on the 11-4, a no dash 10, and a 4" BSR.
The Model 10 is the bottom gun, front sight measures (from bottom of barrel) .885, the 11-4 in the middle measures .940, and the 4" .38-200 BSR (purchased from forum member Old Flatfoot, likely meant for South Africa) measures .931, at least with my calibers.
Having fun with this I measured a Victory (in .38 Special of course, 4"), its front sight was .890, an older M&P dating to the 1920's (I think) in .38 Special with a 5" barrel measured .927, and a .38-200 BSR front sight measured .926.
The 4" .38-200 was likely shipped in May, 1940, based on info provided by Charlie Flick (I have not lettered it yet) so I am guessing it was regulated for the 178gr MKII round, its interesting that the .38-200 with a 5" barrel has essentially the same height front sight as the 5" .38 Special barrel on the M&P. When and if I get the time I am going to chrono some FN 178 gr. MKIIz ammo through the 11, the BSR's, and a 4" Webley and 5" Enfield.
I was bored tonight and your questions got me thinking, so I measured the front sights on the 11-4, a no dash 10, and a 4" BSR.
The Model 10 is the bottom gun, front sight measures (from bottom of barrel) .885, the 11-4 in the middle measures .940, and the 4" .38-200 BSR (purchased from forum member Old Flatfoot, likely meant for South Africa) measures .931, at least with my calibers.
Having fun with this I measured a Victory (in .38 Special of course, 4"), its front sight was .890, an older M&P dating to the 1920's (I think) in .38 Special with a 5" barrel measured .927, and a .38-200 BSR front sight measured .926.
The 4" .38-200 was likely shipped in May, 1940, based on info provided by Charlie Flick (I have not lettered it yet) so I am guessing it was regulated for the 178gr MKII round, its interesting that the .38-200 with a 5" barrel has essentially the same height front sight as the 5" .38 Special barrel on the M&P. When and if I get the time I am going to chrono some FN 178 gr. MKIIz ammo through the 11, the BSR's, and a 4" Webley and 5" Enfield.
Last edited:
shawn mccarver
SWCA Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2005
- Messages
- 7,989
- Reaction score
- 7,037
Huh? Model 11s were made until discontinued. The feeble 38 S&W cartridge was never popular here, however.
1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I owned 2 that were NIB. ONe was a non bright blue finish and the other was a bright finish. Both had lanyard rings. Both were model marked and 4 " guns. ONe had the 178gr marking on the barrel, the other didn't. I think one was a 5 screw and the other a 4 screw. I don' t have my notes here and can get them later on and provide additional info.
Hope this helps,
Bill
Hope this helps,
Bill
OP
gjamison
SWCA Member
this is all great info. i have a chance to buy one. can't get a look at it for a couple of weeks....
Another thread resurrection because of new information, or at least a new interpretation.
"Hansen Felion" is apparently a mistranscription of the name Samson & Filion, a known hardware dealer in Quebec founded in the late 1880s.
I recently acquired 11-4 C569252, shipped December 1970 (but I don't yet know where).
Last edited:
DWalt
Member
"The markings on the barrel...the "178 gr"...I take it that this revolver's sights are zeroed for the .380" Mk.II Cartridge, which had the 178 grain bullet?"
Throughout WWII, and afterward, the British .380 Revolver Mk2 cartridge with the 178 grain FMJ bullet was the standard issue. The older .380 Revolver Mk1 cartridge with the 200 grain lead bullet was declared illegal for use in warfare under the protocols of the Hague Conventions, and was dropped from service prior to WWII. However, stockpiles of the Mk1 round remained and were used up during the war in training. The S&W British .38/200 revolver front sight blade would logically have been regulated for the Mk2 round. Whether that is actually the case, I don't know.
Throughout WWII, and afterward, the British .380 Revolver Mk2 cartridge with the 178 grain FMJ bullet was the standard issue. The older .380 Revolver Mk1 cartridge with the 200 grain lead bullet was declared illegal for use in warfare under the protocols of the Hague Conventions, and was dropped from service prior to WWII. However, stockpiles of the Mk1 round remained and were used up during the war in training. The S&W British .38/200 revolver front sight blade would logically have been regulated for the Mk2 round. Whether that is actually the case, I don't know.
Last edited:
