Hello...I'm new to this forum so I hope you'll all bear with me!
I'd like some help please in identifying a deactivated (we aren't allowed guns that go "bang" in the UK!) S&W revolver.
Originally I thought,by the design and finish,that it was a "Victory" revolver,but on inspection there is no V before the s/n..which is 943721,on the butt there is marked an ordnance bomb,a P proof mark and WB (which I've found out are the initials of Waldemar Bromberg).
Its .38 calibre,has a 4" barrel and plain unchequered grips...a parkerised finsh and case hardening colours on both the tigger and the hammer
What I'd like to know please is what model of revolver I have,and who might have used it

hope someone can help me on this!!

A lend lease pre-victory? Yours probably in 38 S&W rather than 38 special?
Welcome aboard.

Sounds like an M&P model right before they made the victory model. I have read the M&Ps went to serial number 999,999 before the V prefix was used. Is the caliber marking 38 S&W or 38-200? This gun is still currently produced as the Model 10.

Sounds like an interesting revolver. If you ever visit the US, I'm sure you'll run across a bunch of us S&W fans that would let you fire our guns. Welcome aboard!

Sounds like a .38/200 British Service revolver or Model K-200. They fall within the serial numbers of the M&P series 1905 4th change of about 700,000 to 1,000,000.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I've managed to take some images of the S&W revolver I'm trying to find more about.I hope this helps!
The holster is a British 1937 pattern which came with the revolver,it might be a missmatch or it might give a clue as to its history.
I can try and take some more images if needed (tho' I'm no David Bailey!)

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Yes it's a Pre- Victory alright. Cal. 38 S&W but with a 5 inch barrel not 4 inch. You measure from the muzzle to the forcing cone. The holster would be correct for a Lend Lease revolver used in British service. How is it deactivated?

If you ever get to the States and can swing by Little Rock you're welcome to shoot mine.

many thanks to everyone who has helped i/d my gun!
Hows its been deactivated:...the firing pin on the hammer has been removed and a thin metal shell has been spot welded into the cylinder..so its impossible to load anything into the cylinder..the action works though

so...is the Victory revolver the same as mine but chambered for a different round?

YES, the 38/200 is chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge and the Victory model is chambered in 38 Special. The 38 Special is slightly smaller in diameter and cases can bulge and crack if fired in the 38/200. Many guns were modified by having the chambers made smaller to take the 38 special, but some were not done correctly and should be checked by a good gunsmith before shooting.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Victory and Pre-victory guns are the same model. The pre-victory lacks the "V" and US property marks. Victorys came in both 38 S&W and 38 Special. Most 38 S&W or 38/200 cal guns were British and had 5 inch barrels. Most 38 Spec. were 4 inch barrels and went to US troops and Plant guards. Most Pre-Victorys sent to England were from a pre-war contract with S&W. The contract was for a carbine that S&W defaulted on, so the sent revolvers instead.

Dean if your revolver is chambered for .38 S&W .That is the correct ammo to use but a lot of the guns were bored out so they can chamber .38 special. But as the .38 S&W was fatter the .38 specials most likley will bulge or split. I can't remember right now but I think the U with the broad arrow was a South African Goverment marking . If I'm wrong someone will correct me.

Hello all,
I have, what I believe to be a pre-victory revolver.
Can anyone help identify it?
It has on the left side of the barrell:
BNP .38 .767'
31/2 Tons per []"
Smith & Wesson
on the right side:
38 S & W CTG

on the butt: 693454 (nothing else on the butt... no letters)
The U with an Arrow inside pointing up... behind the hammer.
Below the U arrow is the number 2601

BNP stamp on cylinder outside each chamber (6)
BNP stamp on frame too.
On hammer says: REG US Pat OFF
4 inch barrel 6 round cylinder

Finally, I assume I should only use S&W 38 ammo (not 38 special)


Thanks in advance,
Dean

Thanks Bob

Here is an image of my 38/200 that was converted to .22lr after the war by Parker-Hale. It was made in 1940.

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Corripe Cervisiam

Bob and/or Dean-

You have a South African gun. It was the Union of South Africa then, the Republic dating from the early 1960's. I think they left the British Commonwealth then, over the apartheid issue. Hence, the U mark with Broad Arrow. You see that on many Lee-Enfield rifles, too.

The four-inch barrel was probably an early blued one. They looked like commercial M&P's, which they were! But after April, 1942, all .38-200 versions were made only with five-inch barrels, smooth grips, and a dull gray finish with more tool marks, to speed production.

Fom April, 1940-1942, the guns came with commercial bluing, checkered grips with silver medallions, and lanyard rings in butts. Barrels of four, five, and six inches were supplied. These were used by all Commonwealth countries, with them being standard n Canada, I think. Canadian examples have a big C with the Broad Arrow in it marked on them, like the U for your South African gun.

You are correct about the ammo,unless the gun has been altered. Most that were were re-stamped for .38 Special, which isn't a good conversion. Some surplus dealers just thought that .38 Specials would sell better.

You have a very desirable collectible, as-is. Please don't alter it: a British martial collector will prefer it as-is. And not many of the South African examples seem to have made it to the USA. (Are you American?) At least two members here do have SA guns and one has posted some excellent photos of hers; she's a pro photographer.

By contrast, No. 4 .303 rifles with SA markings are relatively common here. PM me if you need referral to a site that discussses British arms. I don't think we can post links to other boards openly on this one.

The UK member above posted photos of his Pattern M-1937 holster. That was standard for all their .38's, including Webley MK IV and Enfield No 2's. It was made only for five-inch barrels, so others just had to be accomodated. I've seen a photo of RAF men in North Africa, with six-inch S&W's in those holsters. The butts stuck way out, and I'm surprised that they could even close the flaps! RAF holsters and belts, ammo pouches were grey. Army ones are sage/olive green. Tankers had a different open-topped holster that hung down the leg on a long strap. Later versions had a shorter strap.

Way over 568,000 of these revolvers were supplied to Commonwealth forces, and they were probably the most common sidearm used by them. I do not have production figures for Enfield, Webley, and Colt .38's also widely used.

Thanks so much Texas Star. I never envisioned such a fine and detailed explanation. Yes, I am American and this pistol came to me years ago by way of a family friend who never was able to give me any history on it. He lived in Chicago.
I'll post pictures when I learn how.

Thanks again,
Dean

Thanks Butch, the pictures are a big help too.

Hello all, this is my first post and I've been meaning to do it for years!
I have a Victory Model similar to the one that @SkyGuide described, but without the South African markings.
Like several on the forum, I inherited it from my Grand Father who served in WWII and I'd like to know more about it. Unfortunately I was too young when he died to know that I should have "grilled him" on how, where, and when he got the pistol.

Here's the description:

5 inch Barrel

It has on the left side of the barrel:
Smith & Wesson
BNP .38 .767'
31/2 Tons

BNP Stamped on the frame in front of the cylinder as well as on the cylinder.


On top of the frame, above the cylinder is "8 U.S. Property G.H.D."

On the right side of the barrel:
38 S. & W. CTG

On the right of the frame between the trigger and the cylinder "MADE IN U.S.A."

Matching S/N on butt, cylinder and barrel: V 346XXX

Two of the most intriguing pieces of "evidence", at least to me, are the following:

1. On the left side just to the right of the trigger as you face it is a very small marking that looks like two swords crossed in a "X" with a "2" below, a "B" to the right, a "1" to the left and a "." on top.

2. I found another number on the inside of the cylinder arm and the part of the frame that it closes onto - "99XXX". Is that normal or do I have mis-matched parts?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Welcome to the Forum! The number stamped on the frame inside the cylinder crane is an assembly number and really doesn't mean much outside of the factory. It sounds like your gun is all original to me!

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Even older, even crankier....

I started a new thread on this so that it would get new visibility.

Specsboy, from the SN, your revolver left the S&W factory in about April 1942, but without a factory historical letter, it is not possible to determine the exact shipping date.