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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #51  
Old 10-15-2009, 11:30 AM
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Dave,

I think that it is probable that my holster is a Brill. Of course, mine is a different model lacking the loop and lining but having the lacing and the retaining strap. However, under magnification there are significant differences in the basket weave between yours and mine. That might simply be different stamps used for different models or different years of manufacture. Another friend who is a big holster collector here also suggested that mine might be a Brill.


Dan,

If there were any gold highlights on mine they were long gone and replaced with a lifetime of grime. I used a light solution of Windex and a soft cloth to remove the dirt and they have a lovely old opalescent glow now. Even the chip at the top of the left grip came clean so it is much less noticeable now. It is amazing that they have survived 22 years of a hard life with only that small defect and the loss of the ruby eyes. If I still had my dental office and materials I'm pretty sure that I could repair that chip so that it wouldn't be noticeable. I may look for some of the material used for red sight inserts and see how that will look in the eyes.

I seem to remember a previous post where someone here, who's wife was a jeweler, said that she used a light coating of mineral oil on pearl necklaces once a year and recommended that for MOP grips also. Does anyone else recall that?

Bob
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  #52  
Old 10-15-2009, 11:42 AM
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Bob,

I had a set missing rubys so I went out to a pawnshop and asked about loose jewels of that size. got both of them for less than $20 and installed them myself with clear epoxy.

added : did you see the Post by WyattBurp about some actors 1926's. they appear to have the same sideplate design as yours.


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  #53  
Old 10-15-2009, 01:24 PM
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I just dug this one out to show that all the W&K guns didn't sell with the "ugly" option. This one is about 350 numbers away from the Chief's engraved one and it shipped about 3 wks. later. Cell phone picture certainly doesn't do it justice.

Bob
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  #54  
Old 10-15-2009, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bettis1 View Post
Rather than just grossly applying SP's tag of "ugly", I might describe the style as kitsch. There is no question that when compared with the classic engraving styles of Gustave Young, the Ulrich family, Cuno Helfricht, etc. this style is aesthetically deficient. If this was a "one off" example it could be dismissed as an abuse of a gun. On the other hand, the fact that it is represented multiple times, I think that the style can be called an excellent example of a truly American art form. In the art world, it would be like comparing the primitive style of Grandma Moses to one of the classic old world artists.
I agree with this 100%, these revolvers are not ugly at all.

Considering the reputation of the fellows who employed these revolvers, prehaps serious gunmen of today might consider some "wriggling" and a pair of steerhead pearl stocks a sign of prowess!
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  #55  
Old 10-15-2009, 09:50 PM
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I seem to remember a previous post where someone here, who's wife was a jeweler, said that she used a light coating of mineral oil on pearl necklaces once a year and recommended that for MOP grips also. Does anyone else recall that?

Bob

I've heard that same thing on more than one occasion. I've also heard you can age them in tea. Extended low humidity will shrink and crack ivory. I don't know if there is any recovery from that.
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  #56  
Old 10-16-2009, 12:01 AM
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Bob,

you mention you have a chip in your grip. I have been doing some inhouse repairs on this pair and I think they look much better now. I still have a long way to go as the grip was dropped and broke but it sure looks better now. I used a clear 2 part epoxy. I took them to several dentists and they looked at me like I was retarded. I hauled them to a couple big shows and had some grip guys tell me it was more then they could do.

before


After

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  #57  
Old 10-16-2009, 05:36 AM
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Nicely done Dan. The secret in repairing anything that is translucent (such as mother of pearl or teeth) is to use a material which picks up and reflects the color of the object being repaired. The material which is used to in dentistry to repair teeth comes in multiple shades to match the damaged area.

Sorry you couldn't find a dentist to help you. It seems like the kind of a challenge that a "gunny-type" dentist would love to try. I do know, however, that there isn't an insurance code for repair of Steer head carved pearl grips

Bob
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  #58  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:56 AM
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Bob, I like you're defense of the "ugly" tag these guns get. I love the flamboyant flash when Mexican influence mixes up with American culture. And it's exclusive to the southwest. Stevie Ray Vaughn and ZZ Top are an example of this. These guys were raised on Tex-Mex music. There music and flashy way of dress just wouldn't happen in Wisconsin for example. The old lawmen of that era felt it. Look at the way everyone dress in Tombstone. I think they got that right. And I like the fact that such gaudy, pretty guns were used by hard core tough as nail mankillers. BTW. Do Colts count?
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  #59  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:59 AM
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Default Great Thread!!!

One of the best "special" threads I have ever read.
I feel that far fron being ugly, these pieces are special for being a niche in S&W history and of the region, Texas. They are, I am sure far rarer than factory engraved, and each has a special history. These law enforcement officers wanted weapons that were differant in appearance to give themselves individual distinction, especially the Texas Rangers.
I wish that when I called 911 I knew men of that caliber would be responding, instead of some idiot that can't hit the barn door with birdshot.
Again, great thread, an article in SWCA journal would be great.

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  #60  
Old 10-16-2009, 07:48 PM
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Posts like this is what makes this forum different from the rest.

Thanks Bob for sharing, and thanks Lee for a place to prop my feet up and enjoy the company of other like minds.
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  #61  
Old 10-24-2009, 11:26 AM
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very cool gun with great history. nice find.

was the officer next to him wearing a 1911 ? looks like it to me.
he joined the force at 40 ? ( died in 52 at age 62, joined in 1930 = 40) seems a bit old to be getting in to the game.

as an aside, does anybody know why the bullet loop duty leather only have 10 loops ? wouldnt 2 full reloads be more practical ?
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  #62  
Old 10-24-2009, 01:08 PM
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ElToro,

You are correct that he would be 40 at the time of joining the Sherman force. I don't have any other info at hand that would give any more information.

You are also correct that the officer on Grady Thompson's immediate left appears to be carrying a M1911. Another officer on the upper right corner of the photo is also carrying a M1911. Both are "cocked and locked".

I have no way of knowing for sure but I would not be surprised if both of those Colts were . 38 Super. The Super cartridge was introduced in 1929 and it was extremely popular with the police in the southwest. My wife's grandfather was a sheriff in another county in Texas in the '30's and we have his Colt .38 Super which was shipped to him from the factory.

(Those familiar with S&W history know that the popularity with law enforcement of the competition's .38 Super in the Colt M1911 gave a major impetus to S&W developing the .357 Magnum in 1935...about a year after these photos were taken.)

Bob
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  #63  
Old 10-26-2009, 11:21 AM
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BTT.. blah blah
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  #64  
Old 10-26-2009, 03:15 PM
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In response to the question about Grady Thompson starting his law enforcement career at age 40, I now have info that he began carrying a badge after he went broke farming. In the '20's and '30's in Texas he wasn't alone in experiencing that kind of "financial reversal". Times were very tough.

Apparently there were others in his family who had pursued the LEO career previously.

Bob
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  #65  
Old 10-26-2009, 05:55 PM
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Outstanding post & history. Good to know there are still some of those great finds out there. Thanks
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  #66  
Old 11-05-2009, 06:21 PM
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This thread generated a good bit of interest and is a good resource for this style of "decoration", so I will post this link to a similar gun which is being offered for sale. I have no interest in the gun being offered and enter it for information purposes only. Moderators: If this is in violation of the Forum policy, please delete it.

This gun follows the general style which we have identified but it seems to have some slight variations in the patterns that Dan M., others, and I have seen.

The pearl steer head grips are almost identical to mine which were posted at the beginning of the thread. I am comfortable in saying that, very likely, the same individual carved both of them.

Bob
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  #67  
Old 11-06-2009, 04:44 PM
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Default Great Stuff

Bob and all the other posters;
I am reminded often,on the forum,of why these old Smiths interest me.It is way beyond the guns themselves.
As to the engraving,grips,etc..all of my cap pistols were of that style(W&K toys?)so I was prepared to appreciate these old guns early on.
Wayne
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  #68  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:04 PM
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Dad has got a W&K engraved gun that has factory or factory style (no numbers on the inside) that have had silver or some sort of thin metal formed over them that are also engraved with the same initial as is on the gun. Sure would like to find the stash of grips that W&K pulled off most of these guns to put on the pearls.
Thanks
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:56 PM
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Bump! Someone from Colt forum might come over and check this great thread out.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:54 PM
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Since I just got some W&K grips for the apropriate gun, I thought I'd reread this great thread. And why not bump it while I'm here.
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  #71  
Old 06-07-2010, 07:42 AM
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Wyatt

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. Your new grips are beauties, too. Feel free to post them on this thread also.

In re-reading this post I note that several of the photos are no longer available. If any of you still have those photos in your album please consider re-posting them. I think it is valuable to have as much info on a topic as is available in one place.

Bob
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettis1 View Post
Wyatt

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. Your new grips are beauties, too. Feel free to post them on this thread also.

In re-reading this post I note that several of the photos are no longer available. If any of you still have those photos in your album please consider re-posting them. I think it is valuable to have as much info on a topic as is available in one place.

Bob
Since we're studying the details of the grips, here's the pair I just got from H.E. for my renickled 1926. Both gun and grips are W&K. The gun was made in '27 and given to a police capt. as a gift and is so inscribed on the sideplate. The Colt was made the same year the S&W was presented as a gift, 1930.



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  #73  
Old 06-07-2010, 09:35 AM
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Absolutely great post. I never tire of reading and seeing guns with known stories. Thanks to all involved, Joe.
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:44 AM
Larry from Bend Larry from Bend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettis1 View Post
I'm not sure just who first attached the term "Pawn Shop" engraving to this style (I believe that our mentor, Ed C., is the first that I heard use it so until told otherwise, he gets the honor.) That is a pretty good term because it immediately denotes a little declasse version of a common item. Additionally, and most importantly, the originator of the style was actually...wait for it now...a pawn shop!

Rather than just grossly applying SP's tag of "ugly", I might describe the style as kitsch. There is no question that when compared with the classic engraving styles of Gustave Young, the Ulrich family, Cuno Helfricht, etc. this style is aesthetically deficient. If this was a "one off" example it could be dismissed as an abuse of a gun. On the other hand, the fact that it is represented multiple times, I think that the style can be called an excellent example of a truly American art form. In the art world, it would be like comparing the primitive style of Grandma Moses to one of the classic old world artists.

What is interesting is to try to determine just how and why it evolved as a "style". We are pretty comfortable in saying at this point that Wolf and Klar, a large jewelry store/pawn shop in Fort Worth was the most prolific supplier of this style. W&K marketed their wares specifically to prominent folks in the southwest such as lawmen, oilmen, and cattlemen. These folks were, almost as a group, type A personalities. They were gregarious, ostentatious and "in your face" with their personalities and lifestyles. Many times their economic condition was a real roller coaster ride. When they came into a gusher or sold a herd or pinned on a badge, they often wanted to get some indication of their new found stature. Because of the distance and time between the market center of Fort Worth and the social center of the east coast, having the Factory produce a classically engraved gun was out of the question. They walked into W&K, laid some cash on the counter, and walked out with a shiny new toy. What we now call instant gratification.

What say you all?

Bob
It's not so much engraved as tattooed - but, because of the historical significance, I like it.
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:29 AM
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I really enjoyed reading this thread, being a lifetime Texan, I have spent time in many of the locations mentioned like Kerrville & Ingram, even "Hunt" Texas. I was searching a gun store website yesterday and noticed that they have two sets of the steer head grips with ruby eyes for sale, I have no ties to the business, just a FYI For the group. They list "two" pair of grips for sale but they look like the exact same pair to me, not sure if they listed the item twice or maybe they do have two pair of grips for sale, I dunno. Maybe someone can comment of these two pair of grips, do they seem like they came from the same place as the original poster's gun?

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  #76  
Old 06-07-2010, 12:46 PM
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[QUOTE=bettis1;]I recently had the opportunity to pick up a well documented old M1926 Wolf & Klar...The gun (sn 341xx) was shipped to W&K in February 1930...
When Thompson began his LEO career in 1930, he had no sidearm so a Texas Ranger gave him this "Pawn Shop" engraved Smith with the pearl steer head grips...
Rarely do we get the opportunity to have an old gun tell it's story like this one.QUOTE]



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Bob,
Thank You for a Real Treat!

It's special to see everyone adding images of their treasures for to delight all us ol' timers.

Su Amigo,
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:49 PM
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I wanted to check on some W&K stuff and dug up this great thread. I think it's the second time I ressurected it. It's my favorite on here and people who haven't seen it deserve to. Most people here are real historical so this fits right in there.
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  #78  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:20 PM
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This thread is a real winner! I have never seen it before, what a treat to read.
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Old 07-30-2011, 04:27 PM
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Went through and fixed my picture links. I had reshuffled my photobucket pictures and most of the links went bad. I love these cattle guns

Dan
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  #80  
Old 07-30-2011, 04:47 PM
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Thanks for the bump Burp!

Great thread, great gun.
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  #81  
Old 07-31-2011, 12:17 AM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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"Most people here are real historical..."

Wyatt, is that a polite way of calling me old?

Keep it up and I'll hit you with my Geritol bottle or my walker....
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  #82  
Old 07-31-2011, 09:54 AM
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Wyatt and others,

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. As I read it, I am reminded of details in the Chief's life that I had forgotten.

The gun is still a much appreciated part of my collection. It will be in my display of about 40 guns that represent the evolution of the N frames (from the Triple Lock to the .44 Mag.) at the NRA annual collectors show held in conjunction with the Dallas Arms Collector Show on August 20-21. If any of you are in the area, please stop by, say hello and "spin some cylinders".

Bob
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  #83  
Old 07-31-2011, 10:47 AM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
"Most people here are real historical..."

Wyatt, is that a polite way of calling me old?

Keep it up and I'll hit you with my Geritol bottle or my walker....
I only brought it up because I saw you on Antique Roadshow. Rodney Dangerfield said he's so old when he walks past a cemetary guy follow him with shovels.
BTW. My unengraved 1926 is from 1927 and is less than 135 numbers below the engraved gun featured in this thread. Seems kind of close in numbers for a long span of time shipped, 1927 and 1930.

Last edited by Wyatt Burp; 07-31-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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  #84  
Old 07-31-2011, 11:10 AM
mg357 mg357 is offline
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holy cow thats a very nice s&w revolver!
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  #85  
Old 07-31-2011, 11:56 AM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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"I only brought it up because I saw you on Antique Roadshow."

A pox on you! May your state be represented by the likes of Boxer, Finestein, and Pelosi forever!

Nah, I don't mean that. I wouldn't wish that on anybody, not even Sip!
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  #86  
Old 08-01-2011, 06:49 PM
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Great gun and even better history, Bob. Love it when the story comes together with the gun.
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  #87  
Old 07-26-2015, 10:52 AM
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I recently received an inquiry from another researcher on the Sherman Police Department history of this era. Since it has been four years since this thread was active, I thought I might revive it in hopes that some more information or examples of the Wolf & Klar guns might have turned up.

Perhaps some of the newer Forum members might also enjoy this old timer and be able to add to our knowledge of the "Pawn Shop" engraved guns.

Bob
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  #88  
Old 07-26-2015, 11:03 AM
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I just love guns with stories and documentation. Very interesting, thanks for posting.
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  #89  
Old 06-06-2016, 10:35 AM
daddy bear daddy bear is offline
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I know where there is a .44 Special that fits in here. I will get photos this week and see what you guys can tell me. It is still lives in Ft. Worth. The inexpensive engraving is interesting. Likely a Wolf and Klar.

Jack
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  #90  
Old 06-06-2016, 01:12 PM
austinjeane austinjeane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettis1 View Post
Lee,

I have an old "junk" collector friend who has a K frame that is "Pawn Shop" engraved that is documented to have belonged to a Chief of the Ft. Worth PD. However, he thinks it is worth more than I do so I haven't been able to pick it up yet...still trying though.

Regarding the story about the happenings in Sherman, I'll quote from the story in Lone Wolf Gonzaullas, Texas Ranger by Brownson Malsch:

"Captain Hamer told Judge Carter (the trial judge of the black man charged with the rape) that in his opinion, the trial could not be continued in Sherman without blood being shed. The judge announced that a change of venue would be ordered and pandemonium ensued when the crowd thought that the man they sought would be removed from their grasp.

At that point Hamer received a message from Governor Dan Moody that told him to 'protect the Negro if possible, but not to shoot anyone'. Captain Hamer was quoted as telling Judge Carter 'This means the mob will get the Negro'.

The mob leaders heard about the message and decided that the alleged instruction to Hamer would apply with equal force to the National Guardsmen. It was concluded that no matter the extreme to which the crowd might go, no one was in danger of being shot. That was judged to have been the turning point in the whole ugly affair. Tear gas was used but the only result was to further enrage the crowd.

The Grayson County Court House was masonry but the interior was dry old wood and gasoline was poured in a window and ignited. The 21 man Sherman fire department responded and attempted to fight the fire but as soon as they laid hoses, the hoses were slashed. Mob leaders allowed the firemen one sound hose to put out fires which ignited on adjacent buildings but warned that if the hose was turned toward the Court House, it would be cut."

An ugly page in the history of that community.

Bob
Great Post-But in defense of Governor Moody, he never issued a no shoot order to the Texas Rangers guarding the prisoner. This was a rumor started by an AP reporter and picked up by the mob. Captain Hamer did fire on the mob at one point with a shotgun. The prisoner had been locked in the County Clerk's vault and suffocated during the burning of the courthouse. The rangers were the last out and didn't have the vault's combination. After the fire, the mob opened the vault with torches, lynched the body and burned it in a bonfire. Martial law was declared and the Texas National Guard ended the insurrection.
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  #91  
Old 06-23-2016, 06:28 PM
eddiejoe314 eddiejoe314 is offline
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Thanks Bob, That's a great story and accompanying pictures, those are the things that make collecting so enjoyable. I'll keep looking for the story behind the iron, and post it when I have it.
Ej
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  #92  
Old 06-23-2016, 06:43 PM
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Hello Bob,,, I still read the article from the S and W quarterly magazine that has all the interesting things on this one.... I really do like it and the article talks about the lynching and Tx Ranger Frank Hamer showing up and the whisky trade with another ranger for the pistol. Great article .... I never get tired of reading it and have it in, as Archie Bunker would say the "Reading Room....Blessings, Bill
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  #93  
Old 06-23-2016, 08:06 PM
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austinjeane,

You are correct. Those statements are in the letter which Captain Hamer sent to Gov. Moody at the close of the riot.

This revolver and the events linked with it are featured in an article titled Rangers, Riots, and a Wolf & Klar .44 which I wrote for the S&WCA Journal Vol. 47, Number 2, Summer 2013. The Sherman riot is also the subject of a chapter in a new book The Epic Life of Frank Hamer, Texas Ranger by John Boessencker.

Bob
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  #94  
Old 06-24-2016, 09:25 AM
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I don't work at Christie's Auction House but I do watch the Antiques Road Show. I know folk art when I see it. Personally I like it!


Keith
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  #95  
Old 06-25-2016, 09:29 AM
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I consider myself a historian and this is most interesting reading.
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  #96  
Old 04-11-2018, 10:05 PM
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Default .38 Special W&K

I have an old S&W W&K .38 special. Any experts out there?
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  #97  
Old 04-12-2018, 02:29 AM
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How coincidental is it that this thread got (inadvertantly) revived? The very gun being discussed here just went across the virtual "auction block" a few days ago....

Mark
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  #98  
Old 04-12-2018, 08:08 AM
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Yes Mark. I decided that it was time to allow this historic old piece to be enjoyed by another collector. It represents, from many angles, a dramatic period in our culture and in the history of law enforcement in the Southwest.

I hope that the new owner will enjoy and appreciate holding it as much as I have and that he will continue to post on this thread.

Bob
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:47 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad'sGun View Post
I have an old S&W W&K .38 special. Any experts out there?
Welcome to the Forum.

You would better off to start your own thread.

More info is needed. Serial number (taken from the butt), finish, barrel length, type of sights and grips, etc.

Pictures are extremely helpful.
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