Model 29 marked as factory nickel but doesn't letter that way.

RLM-BHM · #1 11-15-2009, 12:25 AM

Well, I just received my Letter Of Authentication from Mr. Jinks for my Model 29, no dash, serial S206260. Problem is, the letter states it as be blue but it's nickel and has the N markings on the cylinder and the grip frame, see pictures. My question is 1, could the S&W records be wrong
or 2, was it sent back to the factory and changed from blue to nickel and the markings done then? If 2, wouldn't the factory have this in it's records?
TIA....

VM · #2 11-15-2009, 12:28 AM

I'm thinking you should call Roy Jinks on Monday. I'd bet he made a typo/error since your gun has the "N" stamps

RLM-BHM · #3 11-15-2009, 01:39 PM

Where can I find Mr. Jinks' phone number?
TIA

VM · #4 11-15-2009, 01:48 PM

By Telephone:
1-800-331-0852 (USA)
Mon-Fri 8:00AM-8:00PM Eastern Time

Ask to speak with Roy Jinks - Historian

Military-man · #5 11-16-2009, 08:28 PM

It's possible that it was nickeled and marked as you indicated to fake being nickel.

diamonback68 · #6 11-16-2009, 08:56 PM

It may have been nickel aftermarket because:
The "N" on the cylinder should be on the cylinder, not the "blued" star. The cylinder is the part to be nickel. Secondly the little "N" on the grip frame doesn't look like the usually "N" stamp denoting nickel, they are usually larger. I'll bet that's an inspectors or assemblers stamp, just like the "O". Lastly, there should be an "N" stamped under the ejector rod on the barrel, is it there?

handejector · #7 11-16-2009, 08:57 PM

It looks like there is something stamped in the shroud- please tell me what if so.

JSR III · #8 11-16-2009, 08:58 PM

Did you mention to Roy that the gun was nickel? The history letters are a form type letter that need to be changed for the details of each gun. Sometimes errors are made and it is possible that the form letter says blue and needs to be changed to nickel when necessary. May have just been an oversight by Roy or that may just be what the records state.

There is also the possibility that someone stamped the "N's" to make it look original and increase the value. The problem is that many folks now know these little signs and can make alterations to make a gun look like something that it's not.

As was suggested, call S&W and ask for Roy Jinks and he can double check for you. If necessary, he will issue a corrected letter at no charge.

Repair or alteration records are not stored in his office and require a search at the museum. They are also stored by date and not be serial number, so you need to have the repair date to have any shot of finding further details.

The S&W Historical Foundation is attempting to digitize these records and when computerized, all of this information should be available together when a gun is researched.

This is one of the best reasons to join the Historical Foundation so that in the future any and all information will be available for one fee.

ditrina · #9 11-16-2009, 09:04 PM

For what it's worth I checked both factory nickel guns that are in my safe.. 27-2 and a 36 both of them are stamped "N" in a much larger type face.. the cylinder stamps are on the " Rear Face"`` of the cylinder not under the ejector star and the N under the grips is a "large N" on the right rear corner of the butt..
Call Mr. Jinks...but I'm gonna guess the N's on your gun are assembly/assembler stamps..
Good luck..

RLM-BHM · #10 11-16-2009, 09:05 PM

Talked to Roy Jinks this morning. He said to return the Letter of Authentication and he would re-check the records. I also included pictures of the 'N' on the frame and cylinder so he could see them.
I keep you'all posted...
Thanks VM for the phone number...

handejector · #11 11-16-2009, 09:17 PM

Again, is there something stamped in the barrel shroud?

Doc44 · #12 11-16-2009, 09:20 PM

From what I can see in the photos, the 29 is correctly stamped with the N(s) indicating a nickel finish. If the revolver still letters as bright, there is an error in the records. Lee, I believe the number 260 is stamped in the shroud (same as on the rear surface fo the cylinder). This might indicate the finish was changed from bright to nickel before shipping and these parts were numbered to keep them together (just a wild guess).

Bill

RLM-BHM · #13 11-16-2009, 09:23 PM

Handejector, I've attached a picture of the shroud, the markings are
3.2

handejector · #14 11-16-2009, 09:37 PM

That's what I thought I was seeing.
That is very strange.
I tend to think it was sent back for the nickel. That is an awfully late gun to have a numbered cyl, I think. I am assuming the rest of the number is under your thumb.

3.2.........
Hmmmmm - Surely, that is not March/2002??????

Gun 4 Fun · #15 11-16-2009, 09:51 PM

Is the frame showing bluing at the top of the grip frame? I blew up the picture without the stocks, and it sure looks like bluing showing.

Diamondback Dick-

I believe the N is on the cylinder, and not the star.

Lee or Bill, when were the last cylinders numbered (approximately) if you know?

RLM-BHM · #16 11-16-2009, 10:34 PM

Gun4Fun, There is no blueing showing, I believe it's a reflection. I've attached 2 more pictures showing the left and right side fo the frame....
check them out...

Gun 4 Fun · #17 11-16-2009, 10:40 PM

Thanks for the better pictures. I thought it was rather strange to have bluing showing, but it sure looked that way in the first picture.

DHENRY · #18 11-16-2009, 11:14 PM

There are, unfortunately, a few unscrupulous refinishers who will, at the customer's urging, apply 'factory-type' stamps to fake out a future buyer.
'The rubber meets the road' when the latest buyer orders up a factory letter.
Hope your gun was actually shipped as a nickel piece, and that the letter is in error.
Don

29aholic · #19 11-16-2009, 11:39 PM

I am with Doc on this one. For whatever the reason for the mistaken letter I believe the gun to be a true nickel gun.

29-1 · #20 11-17-2009, 06:29 AM

I have a few Nickel 44 Mags and they all have slight variances in their stampings. If I had the time I'm pretty certain that I could pull out one that would pretty much mirror the one you show. I believe it's correct in every way and if it letters blue after Roy checks it against the not so perfect factory records and it still bothers you, I'll trade for it straight across for one that does letter. Nice Nickel 44 Mag. They are not that common these days.

Chuck

twaits · #21 11-17-2009, 08:22 AM

My nickel 29-3 also has the large N stamp under the grip. Does anyone out there have an older nickel Smith out there that is nickel and has the small N like this one? That might help verify here.

M29since14 · #22 11-17-2009, 09:53 AM

I'll throw in my two cents with Bill and Chuck. I have not seen a lot of early nickeled guns, but have seen a few, and that one looks OK to me. I hope your new letter shows what you want. Whether it does or not, that appears to be a really nice Model 29. I would not let it go, no matter what the factory letter says. Any record written by humans can contain errors.

That "3.2" marking is something else. I have never seen a Smith with anything like that. Maybe the factory made that gun in the third half of 1962!

VM · #23 11-17-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twaits

My nickel 29-3 also has the large N stamp under the grip. Does anyone out there have an older nickel Smith out there that is nickel and has the small N like this one? That might help verify here.

Doc44 and 29-1 have both said the "N" marks look good.
We couldn't have a better source of knowledge to confirm this gun is appropriate.

But to satisfy your picture request, here's a K frame from approx. 1955 that has similar "N" stamp. The small "N"'s were used on the earlier nickeled guns (from atleast the 50's - early 60's time period)

Doc44 · #24 11-17-2009, 10:22 AM

The small N was used up through the early 60s, a slightly larger N was used through the mid- and later 60s, with the large N being used in the early 70s and later.

Serial numbers were stamped (sporadically) on the rear surface of the cylinder through the S serial number range (I have a 29-2 shipped in 1969, S317000 range, that has the serial number stamped there).

I believe the stamping in the ejector rod shroud is a three digit number. I have several 44 Magnums in nickel that are stamped similarly. All letter as original nickel. Why the numbers are there is anybody's guess.

Bill

diamonback68 · #25 11-17-2009, 10:43 AM

This forum is great, I learn little tricks and nuances ever day here about Smith revolvers. I never knew about the early small "N"s. Thanks to G4F, I thought I was looking at the back of the star instead of underneath it. Thanks guys.

twaits · #26 11-17-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VM

Doc44 and 29-1 have both said the "N" marks look good.
We couldn't have a better source of knowledge to confirm this gun is appropriate.

But to satisfy your picture request, here's a K frame from approx. 1955 that has similar "N" stamp. The small "N"'s were used on the earlier nickeled guns (from atleast the 50's - early 60's time period)

Thanks for posting this. A picture is worth a 1000 words.
I think either the Jinks letter is wrong or the original records were entered wrong. Mistakes happen.

ditrina · #27 11-17-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diamonback68

This forum is great, I learn little tricks and nuances ever day here about Smith revolvers. I never knew about the early small "N"s. Thanks to G4F, I thought I was looking at the back of the star instead of underneath it. Thanks guys.

EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID

RLM-BHM · #28 11-17-2009, 05:47 PM

WOW...thanks for all the good info, I'm feeling allot better about the nickel now...
Anyway, per the Letter Of Authentication, this beauty was shipped from the factory on May 15, 1961 to Sutcliffe Hardware Co. Louisville, Ky. Per the SCOSW and the serial number it was manufactured in 1960, probably late 3rd or 4th quarter... Hey, I just realized MAY 15 is my birthday, I was 14 years old when it was shipped!!!
I've attached another picture of the cylinder with the full serial number showing, without the S.. Was that normal to leave out the S?

Thanks again guys... This forum is GREAT!!!!!

Gun 4 Fun · #29 11-17-2009, 06:02 PM

Yes it is normal to not have the S on the rear face of the cylinder.

VM · #30 11-17-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLM-BHM

Hey, I just realized MAY 15 is my birthday, I was 14 years old when it was shipped!!!
I've attached another picture of the cylinder with the full serial number showing, without the S.. Was that normal to leave out the S?

Thanks again guys... This forum is GREAT!!!!!

VERY Cool about your birthday Gun!

You'll find different models with serial number Prefix and some w/o prefix. Cylinders also came without serial number stampings too.

rhodnett · #31 11-17-2009, 06:57 PM

This has been an interesting, educational, and entertaining thread. Just as in reading a good book, I'm looking forward to the next chapter.

29aholic · #32 11-17-2009, 07:18 PM

I will try to take pics of mine in the next couple of days as a comparison.

29aholic · #33 11-18-2009, 12:29 AM

This is my nickel gun shipped July 1962

Ejector housing

Cylinder

2 frame pics

RLM-BHM · #34 11-23-2009, 06:23 PM

Well, I just received a corrected Letter of Authentication from Mr. Jinks, thank you very much. It now states that the model 29 was shipped May 15, 1961 with a nickel finish, see attached.....
For all that responded to my post, thank you.
I think I'll keep the 29 now, especially since I've been told that I stole it, paid only 3 figures for it at a well known sporting goods chain...I think they mis-marked it...
Thanks again...

VM · #35 11-23-2009, 06:45 PM

Congrats - glad it all worked out!

ditrina · #36 11-23-2009, 06:47 PM

I love a happy ending!!

diamonback68 · #37 11-23-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ditrina

I love a happy ending!!

Me too.