Barrel address on pre 1920 M&P

[BibleronKJV]

I recently acquired a 4 inch M&P serial 289309 which has a 4.7 cm long 3 line barrel address which barely fits on the top of the barrel. In fact, it starts at the back edge of front sight and ends about 1 cm from the frame. The barrel is correct 4 inch, not cut and is in pristine condition. I also have a slightly earlier 4 inch M&P serial 251400 which has a longer 3 line address on the right side of the barrel. What's the story on these early addresses? Thanks for any input. Ron

[glowe]

S&W kept changing stampings and locations through the years, but I doubt that the answer as to why it was done will ever be answered. The frame logo changed several times and actually disappeared for a few years. The serial number stamping was also changed many times, sometimes for obvious reasons like the barrel length and other times for no apparent reason. If the address on your revolver remains centered between the frame and front sight, it seems like it could be original. I have a 4" in the early 300,000 range that has the two line address on the top. When the 38 M&P was first introduced, it had a 2 line barrel stamp that fit on a 4" barrel. By the mid-1920s, the company eliminated several patent dates to shorten enough for a 2 line address stamp to be produced.

My question is if the front sight was forged with the barrel, could they start a roll stamping that close to the sight? When I look at my 4" Model 1899, it appears to start very close to the front sight as well. Below is a Model 1899 4" barrel stamping and a mid-1920s 4" barrel stamp for comparison.

[BibleronKJV]

The gun in question (289309) has the S&W address on the first line then the two 1901 patents on second line and then the 1906, 1909, and 1914 patents on the third line. The address starts right up at the rear edge of the front sight....I mean as close to the sight as you can get ... and then ends 1 cm in front of the frame. Gary, thank you for your input and pix. Sorry I can't do pix, but maybe we will get some other pix as the thread moves on. Ron

[Targets Guy]

Makes sense to me. My six inch barreled change 3 has all of that in two lines. Going to a four inch would prob require a third line.

My s/n is 216xxx, shipped in Oct 1914.

[BibleronKJV]

My earlier M&P (251400) has the 3 line address on the right side of the 4 inch barrel which makes sense, but to try and put a 3 line address on top of a 4 inch barrel seems a bit awkward. I was just wondering if this was a trial idea which morphed into a shorter two line address by the early 1920's. I guess that is what makes S&W collecting so interesting. Ron

[Absalom]

Just for fun: December 1913.

[Targets Guy]

When do they know what the "top" of the barrel is? Or when did they know.

[BibleronKJV]

Absalom, That's the very same address as on my 4 inch #251400 which I guess is from 1916-17. Ron

[19leben]

I'm also curious about when and why Smith and Wesson stopped rolling the patent dates on their revolvers.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[JP@AK]

19leben
I can tell you approximately when, but the answer to "why" is probably complicated and may not have a single answer. I'll offer a couple thoughts.

The patent dates remained on the M&P models for several years after WWII. All of the S prefix guns seem to have them. Some early C prefix guns also have the patent dates on the barrel. But in the very early 1950s, those disappeared forever. I have one that shipped in February, 1951, and there are no patent dates.

On other models - those with target sights - no patent dates appear on the barrels because those models got ribbed barrels after the war. Patent dates on prewar guns were stamped on the top of round barrels with no ribs. For example, the K-38 has a ribbed barrel after the war (when it first became the K-38). Before the war it was the .38 M&P Target model and had a round barrel with no rib, and patent dates stamped on top. The earliest K-22, the Outdoorsman's, had a round barrel. The first K-22 Masterpiece in 1940, also had a round barrel. When the K-22 Masterpiece was released after the war, it had a ribbed barrel and, consequently, no patent dates.

I suspect that on the postwar round barrel types (eg., the M&P) the patent dates were dropped simply because they were an additional and unnecessary step in production. After all, they were quite dated by that time (no pun intended). The last patent date that appeared on any of them was December 29, 1914. Several engineering changes had been made between 1914 and c. 1950, when the date stamps were discontinued. If the dates were to be continued and have any meaning, a new roll stamp would have to be created to include those newer dates. I think the management just thought, why bother? Especially since a large number of guns now had ribs and would not take the dates anyway.

Those are my "for what it is worth" comments.

[BibleronKJV]

What Jack says makes good sense. It also seems like, in general, the use of patent dates, per se, fell into disuse during the 1950's and the use of patent numbers became more common and remain in common use up to the present. Ron