I found this picture on the internet. It shows the authentic .357 Registered Magnum carried by Gen. George S. Patton Jr. during WWII, together with a look-alike put together for the movies. Patton purchased his pistol in 1935. It had a 3.5" barrel with a gold bead front sight and the S&W grip adopter. He customized it with ivory stocks, scrimshawed with his intertwined initials. The caption on this picture on the internet was incorrect as to which is the authentic Patton revolver.

Trivia questions for the day? Which is the real Patton revolver? Also, upon what do you base your conclusion?

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

top is real one.---
Location of initials and the muzzle contour.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

This is a wild guess, but I think the bottom picture is the real deal. My Reason is the wear on the grips seem to be more consistent with the wear on the revolver.

No,Handejector is right.Here is a pic from the museum.




Ken

I'll pick the bottom cause it has a Smith&Wesson logo.

I'll go with the top one, because Lee said it is the one...

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NRA Life Member

To answer my own question: It's the top one. Lee is correct about the muzzle contour. I believe the logo on the authentic revolver is on the left side. The wear on the top handgun is more consistent with holster wear - and Patton's was constantly in his holster. Also note that the ivory stocks have been crafted so that the retaining screw is lower in the stocks, specifically making room for his centered initials. The initials are higher quality than those on the bottom gun, which are comparatively crude, and carved below the screw in standard-pattern stocks. To cinch the final answer, here's a photo from the Patton museum; even the scars on the sideplate appear to match with the upper gun. Sharp eyes, guys!

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

The top one. It's in the Patton Museum in Fort Knox.

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You are what you learn.

Top one-barrel contour-the registered magnums has the front sight and rib ofset about 1/8 from the muzzle-also note the difference in the barrel shroud there is a more pronounced hump where the ejector rod is housed.

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Forum consigliere

Anyone know the serial and registration number?

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

The top one. Front sight setup looks wrong on the bottom one.

I recall the numbers are in the SCSW, but don't have it handy.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I thought the top one was was authentic because the bottom one looks post-war. Am I wrong about that?

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No life story has happy end.

The quickest way to tell is the logo. there's no S&W logos on the right side of Reg. Mags. Next would be the phony grip adaptor's contour difference. Then the muzzle being flush with the front sight,a feature not present in Reg. Mags. Does the member who guessed correctly first get a free date with Nancy Pelousi? Ed #15

Did they use a post war barrel on the bottom one? Looks almost like a slight ramp leading up to the front site base. Carved down M27 3 1/2" barrel?

....and put a genuine round headed high polished screw in the side plate behind the trigger guard on that gun. Only a N/O pimp would have a flat headed screw in there like that.



"... a date with Nancy Pelousi? "
Ouch....Just thinking that that actually happened at one point in time makes me ill...

Well....the one on top has been to war...

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...east wind...rain...

The grip adapter was the giveaway for me.

RM 2329



Ed: I believe that almost all RM's with Reg numbers greater than 2XXX had the large logo on the Right side. Earlier RM's had the small logo on the left side.

RM 649



The bottom gun in the OP is a prewar 357 frame ("made in USA" on the side plate, prewar RM hammer, prewar rear sight) with what is most likely a post war barrel which has been cut flush as noted above and had a slight ramp and a front sight affixed to the barrel (I think it is a post war barrel because of the "normal" "&" rather than the more pronounced "lazy" "&"). Also, note the lower side plate screw is of the postwar variety that is shorter with the flat head and is found under the grip horn on post war revolvers.

Fun thread!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Yeah, who wants some old beat up thing like that?

I very vaguely remember something about Patton having the gold bead installed on the front sight(?)

So does anyone think Patton shot only .38 Specials so as to preserve it for future collectors?

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You're shy a few manners.

I often wondered if his son GEN George Patton IV would of like to have his Dad's RM. I was at Fort Hood when he was in charge of the 2AD. It is good that we have such hero's in our nation. This adventure in the middle east will not leave us the momento's like WWII did. Everyone carries the same exact firearms.

General George S. Patton: An American Hero, An American Legend.

In my opinion I think he would have slapped certain people in the DC establishment.

RK, You're right. I should have been more explicit that I was thinking of RMs of the Patton vintage.
Somewhere in the past, one of the gun magazines ran a story on the 'replica" S&W Reg. Mag and the Colt SAA that were made up for the movie "Patton" but I don't recall which one. Ed #15

I just want to say "WOW!"

I didn't imagine that any RMs still existed in this kind of shape. Would you call that NIB? (Close enough for me!)

Here is the LT Colonel's 1935 order form to S&W. You will note that he asked for a McGivern Bead for the front sight and the Large U for the rear sight.

Not NIB - but very nice, AND she models well for photos.

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Now THAT is neat!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine being able to order a revolver like that today.
Dear Smith & Wesson:
Please prepare and build a Model 27 with the following :
Stainless steel, 3.5" barrel, McGivern bead front sight, large U rear sight, 8 shot counterbored, no IL Modified Magna stocks with grip adapter and regulate it with a 6 O'Clock hold at 25 yards using 158 gr JSP's
Sigh.........

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Forum consigliere

I think it is interesting that Patton, an Olympic pistol shooter specified that his revolver be sighted in at 15 yards.......

Useful combat distance. Patton was no stranger to killing the enemy with a handgun. He took out one of Pancho Villa's lieutenants with his Colt SAA; brought the body back to camp strapped to the fender of his scout car. This was during the punitive expedition to Mexico when he was a lieutenant and an aide to then BG Black Jack Pershing. His Colt has two notches on the left grip...

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Regarding the 15 yard sight-in:
I imagine that if he wanted a target pistol, he would have specified a longer barrel. Considering how flat shooting the .357 Magnum is, bullet drop would be negligible out to any combat range at which a General might employ it.

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You're shy a few manners.

Thought I'd add some pics I took of it through the glass at the Patton Museum when I was there a few years ago, it was by itself (the Colt was at West Point) in a display with Patton's self designed tank uniform (called the 'Green Hornet' uniform IIRC?). The attached one is large and close.....

Attached Images

PattonsRegMag-close.jpg (44.9 KB, 156 views)

Ok, we all know the gun will never be up for sale. But if it was put for sale on the open market, what do you guys think it would go for?

I have no idea .... but it sure would be fun auction to watch.

Regards,

Jerry

Never mind the specifications on the order form, did anybody see the price notation in the lower left corner? $48!! I'll take two at that price. If it ever did come up for sale, unless your name was Warren Buffet or Bill Gates bet you'd have to have a credit check before being allowed to bid.

About 10 years ago the museum loaned it out to the National Gun Day show in Louisville. Well, both guns and a tank! it was a popular display, to say the least. Most of the time folks were lined up 3 or 4 deep to view the guns. Tanks have more surface area so it was viewed by more folks simultaneously. The gun display was the real attraction for most of us. It even prompted my buddy John to recreate the magnum at the time.

Whenever the gun gets significant exposure, the prices (and demand) for the short guns goes up dramatically.

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Dick Burg

I couldn't believe that $48.00 notation was the price, I thought it must mean something else. Of course, that was a lot of money back in 1935.

"What cost $48.00 in 1935 would cost $745.49 in 2008. " (on-line inflation calculator).

At under $800, it still sounds like a fantastic bargain in today's money, but I don't think an inflation calculator can tell the real story. The US was deep into the Great Depression in 1935. My parents and grandparents had many stories about not being able to come up with a dollar or two for necessities. $48 must have looked like a king's ransom to most common people back then.

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You're shy a few manners.

What he said.

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John

Jack,
I agree with your observation. Even though $800 seems almost dirt cheap to us today, in 1935 $48 in cash was more than most people could even dream of. But wasn't the Patton family, ahem, "well off"? Even for a Lt. Col. $48 would have been a lot of money, like close to a month's pay?

Colt SAA,
Where did you find the order form? Please don't say you've been able to take possession of it. And look at all the creases in it. You can tell it's been around the block a few times.

IIRC his family's wealth was pretty good, but when he married Beatrice Banning Ayer (Patton), his wealth increased 10-fold at least. He was not hurting for money any way you look at it...

It sounds like it wasn't a lot of money to Patton. I just wanted to try to give some context for us commoners.

These days, I doubt that anyone in my extended family would have trouble coming up with $48 for something they merely casually want to have. Back in the mid-30s, however, things were a lot different.

There are family stories where spending just a dollar or two for something they really needed was absolutely out of the question.

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You're shy a few manners.

What is the purpose of the Wesson grip adapter?
Is that the thing behind the trigger gaurd?

Yes, the grip adapter is the thing behind the trigger guard. The purpose is to raise the gun in the hand, putting the trigger finger and trigger in better alignment. The Target grips of today fill in that area for the same purpose.



I would not pass if it was cheap enough. I could then afford to have it polished and chromed.


(somebody slap me)

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Does the member who guessed correctly first get a free date with Nancy Pelousi?

The guy who guessed correctly second (second place) gets two dates with Ms. Pelosi.

And don't forget to add real Mother-of-Toiletseat grips - SACRILEGE LOL

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Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA

I cannot see some of the pictures...are these the pictures we are comparing?

http://tinyurl.com/4jzkpek

If I recall correctly, the price for a .357 then began at $60, but Patton, as a serving officer, probably got a discount. Does anyone know?

T-Star

Yep, after the crackdown on copyrighted pictures here, I had to remove them - sorry about that! It's the next to last picture in the group presented.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -