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  #101  
Old 09-08-2013, 06:49 PM
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Yours shipped, probably, in September or October 1944. Original Victory grips would be smooth wood, not checkered, and without S&W medallions - so your grip panels are not original. It would be impossible to say where it went after it left the factory - likely to some military depot. It should have a 4" barrel and a phosphate finish. Some good pictures might reveal other interesting details.
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  #102  
Old 09-10-2013, 08:09 PM
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Default Thank you!

DWalt, Thank you so much for the great info. Sorry to hear that the grips have been changed, but I still sure love the gun! I did find another marking on it, there is a letter "P" stamped on the left side, just above and to the right of the cylinder. The gun looks well used, and is certainly dinged up a bit, but overall I am really impressed with how well it cleaned up for a gun that is almost 70 years old. Here's a pic as you requested.
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  #103  
Old 09-10-2013, 09:05 PM
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Anything you can tell me about the "P" marking I found on the left side between the cylinder and the hammer?
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  #104  
Old 09-10-2013, 09:11 PM
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Default Grip Panel Markings

As you predicted, the right grip panel is stamped with a series of numbers. there are two rows of three #'s and the rows are offset from each other. The top row is 161 and the lower row is 269. Mean anything to you?
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  #105  
Old 09-10-2013, 09:14 PM
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I'm sorry DWalt, I didn't read your reply very well. I followed the link you suggested and read about the markings I've found. That site is a wealth of info, thank you.
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  #106  
Old 09-11-2013, 01:17 AM
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161269 would probably indicate C161269.
Likely from 1951.
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  #107  
Old 09-25-2013, 05:06 PM
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I have inherited a WWII S&W Victory 38 Special. It was issued to my wife's grandfather.
V589250
Has US property GHD
Smooth Walnut Grips
P V 589250 on the Cylinder
4" barrel
Parkerized finish.
P on frame right behind the Top strap.
Any information would be helpful

Thanks.
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  #108  
Old 09-25-2013, 07:48 PM
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My Father-in-law got it from his father, and he gave it to me. He said is father was a pilot. I'm pretty sure it's all original. it needs a good cleaning.
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  #109  
Old 09-25-2013, 09:13 PM
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Was he a Navy pilot? Entirely possible that it may letter as being sent to the Navy.
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  #110  
Old 09-26-2013, 07:18 PM
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I'll have to find out. I thought he was a Marine Pilot.

How does one get a letter for authenticity?
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  #111  
Old 09-26-2013, 09:11 PM
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Marine pilots would have carried Navy revolvers. It is worthwhile to get a factory letter. See: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...4_757812_image

The letter will establish that the revolver was shipped to the Navy and will provide the exact date it left the factory. It won't tell you anything beyond that, such as to whom it was issued. The letter costs $50, but it is worth it if/when you ever decide to sell it.

Last edited by DWalt; 09-26-2013 at 09:21 PM.
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  #112  
Old 12-05-2013, 01:06 AM
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I have not a "what" question, but rather a "why". I am new to Victory Models and have read through this thread thoroughly. I may have missed the answer but here goes:

One of my Victories appears to be a typical Lend Lease with US Property and the GHD inspector's mark. As a Lend Lease item, it was expected or hoped that the revolver would eventually be returned to the United States. So I completely understand that mark. But if the revolver were going to the Allies then why did a US Army inspector need to affix his stamp as well?

Thanks in advance for answering such a basic question.

Doby Pilgrim
Santa Fe

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I have been lurking here off and on for years but only recently joined. Thanks also for such a great resource.
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  #113  
Old 12-05-2013, 01:44 AM
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"As a Lend Lease item, it was expected or hoped that the revolver would eventually be returned to the United States"

There was probably no such expectation. For example, there were a great many .303 Enfield bolt action rifles made by Savage during the war, also with US Property stampings, for use by the British. I'm sure there was never any intent that such rifles would be returned to the US. In the same way, why would the US want a return of revolvers chambered in a non-US military cartridge? The Lend-Lease Act (1941) was primarily an act of subterfuge by President Roosevelt so that the US could maintain its neutrality status as it was legally not giving weapons to the British (and later other countries). However L-L continued all during the war, and the US property stampings continued even after the USA became an active combatant after December 7, 1941. I'm not exactly sure why this happened. Maybe someone else knows the reason for the continuation of L-L.

"But if the revolver were going to the Allies then why did a US Army inspector need to affix his stamp as well?"

Likely because armaments were being manufactured under US government procurement contracts and the armaments were technically the property of the USA. Virtually all items made under government contracts must be accepted by government insectors.
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  #114  
Old 12-05-2013, 09:31 PM
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Yes, Roosevelt got around the Congressional budget process by using Lend Lease, so that we could funnel money without particular scrutiny into British and Commonwealth armies before we got into the war. Later it was just political expedience since we were Allies anyway.

It just seems the explanation might lie in the fact that the stamps were made, the inspecting officer was there, so let the production line roll. I guess I was hoping futilely for a more romantic explanation. At any rate I am happy to have my two. The Commonwealth spec revolver looks like it saw the Elephant, but my .38 Special 4 incher seems unissued and unfired. Neat guns and they are a nice contrast to each other.
Thanks very much for your time. Your thread and all your work here is a blessing to many. Me included.

Doby
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
"As a Lend Lease item, it was expected or hoped that the revolver would eventually be returned to the United States"

There was probably no such expectation. For example, there were a great many .303 Enfield bolt action rifles made by Savage during the war, also with US Property stampings, for use by the British. I'm sure there was never any intent that such rifles would be returned to the US. In the same way, why would the US want a return of revolvers chambered in a non-US military cartridge? The Lend-Lease Act (1941) was primarily an act of subterfuge by President Roosevelt so that the US could maintain its neutrality status as it was legally not giving weapons to the British (and later other countries). However L-L continued all during the war, and the US property stampings continued even after the USA became an active combatant after December 7, 1941. I'm not exactly sure why this happened. Maybe someone else knows the reason for the continuation of L-L.

"But if the revolver were going to the Allies then why did a US Army inspector need to affix his stamp as well?"

Likely because armaments were being manufactured under US government procurement contracts and the armaments were technically the property of the USA. Virtually all items made under government contracts must be accepted by government insectors.
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  #115  
Old 01-03-2014, 07:23 PM
Milesperhourffl07 Milesperhourffl07 is offline
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Default Smith and Wesson V

Hi guys I have a Smith and Wesson Victory -well some mitr argue that-
It is a 38 sw serial v326201 it is rough but it is also very cool. All parts are matching # including the grips.
It underwent a FTR in 53 I believe. There is a 33 next to an up looking arrow along with the FTR markings
Has crown on frame under made in USA
P on butt
Big 101 in grip crotch
ord bomb U.S. property and G.H.D.
side ways NF on barrel -I think-on barrel next to frame not sure what mark is next to that then 3.8' ,767 ' 3.5 tons
has I believe crowns behind flutes in cylinder
feel free to add it data base
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  #116  
Old 01-03-2014, 09:41 PM
Milesperhourffl07 Milesperhourffl07 is offline
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ALSO can yall help to identify it ? I think it is a 42 lend lease to Australia. Can yall help me out?
Thanks
Miles
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  #117  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:36 PM
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Default S&W Victory

Hi guys, thanks in advance for your help. I have a S&W Victory revolver, with smooth walnut grip, 4" barrel, 38 S&W special, with lanyard loop. Serial # V160225. On the opposite side of the serial number is what looks like a flaming bomb. Any ideas what the year of production would be for this? Thanks again.
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  #118  
Old 01-21-2014, 01:45 PM
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Hello PT:

According to the Victory Model Database your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the November, 1942 to February, 1943 time frame.

Hope that info is helpful to you.
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  #119  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTat View Post
Hi guys, thanks in advance for your help. I have a S&W Victory revolver, with smooth walnut grip, 4" barrel, 38 S&W special, with lanyard loop. Serial # V160225. On the opposite side of the serial number is what looks like a flaming bomb. Any ideas what the year of production would be for this? Thanks again.
If yours has no U. S. Property markings, it was likely made for stateside civilian use - police, defense plant guards, etc. Late 1942 is a reasonable shipping period.
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  #120  
Old 02-08-2014, 05:20 PM
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Default victory model serial number look up

I have a victory model with sn # V174347 with N.Y.M.I.612
engraved on the left side of the frame. What year was it manufactured and what does N.Y.M.I.612 denote ? I would appreciate any info you can provide me
Thanks
Wayne G E
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  #121  
Old 02-08-2014, 06:54 PM
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thanks for the info
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  #122  
Old 02-08-2014, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne G E View Post
I have a victory model with sn # V174347 with N.Y.M.I.612
engraved on the left side of the frame. What year was it manufactured and what does N.Y.M.I.612 denote ? I would appreciate any info you can provide me
Thanks
Wayne G E
Wayne, I like to collect guns where the serial or other significant number is my birth date, in this case the "612". How much would you need to part with the gun?
Thanks,
Ryan
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  #123  
Old 02-13-2014, 10:24 AM
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Hi guys, just joined the forum. I recently inherited a 38 special ctg 4" barrel. serial # is V 505876. This gun has no lanyard loop or hole. No stamping on the top plate, it does not have the original grips. Did they sell a civilian model of this gun?
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  #124  
Old 02-13-2014, 11:33 AM
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That SN would have probably shipped from the factory in very early 1944. There were numerous examples of .38 S&W Special Victory revolvers from WWII which are found unmarked. Most of those were purchased through the Defense Supply Corporation (DSC) for non-military use such as allocation to defense plant security guard use or for civil law enforcement personnel. But there were also other unmarked revolvers made for issue to the OSS or the U. S. Maritime Commission. All wartime Victories that I am aware of did have lanyard swivels on the butt. However, sometimes the swivel has been removed and the hole in the butt for the swivel will be found plugged. A factory letter would be required to establish where yours was first sent.
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  #125  
Old 02-13-2014, 06:27 PM
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Thanks Dwalt, some pics of it.
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  #126  
Old 02-13-2014, 09:25 PM
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It's nice looking, but the original finish was not blued but a dull phosphate. And the grips are not original. While it is probably an excellent shooter, being non-original it has little value to a collector.
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  #127  
Old 02-19-2014, 11:35 AM
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Good Morning
I recently received, from a relative, a Victory Model SN V645122. It is a 4", blue finish, lanyard hole in the butt, with no other distinguishing marks that I have identified. The "V" in the serial number on the butt is separated from the actual number by approximately 3/4". Can you give me an approximate ship date?
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  #128  
Old 02-19-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-mom View Post
Good Morning
I recently received, from a relative, a Victory Model SN V645122. It is a 4", blue finish, lanyard hole in the butt, with no other distinguishing marks that I have identified. The "V" in the serial number on the butt is separated from the actual number by approximately 3/4". Can you give me an approximate ship date?
Thank you
Dave
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Likely July or August 1944.
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  #129  
Old 02-19-2014, 07:56 PM
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Thank you for your prompt response!
Dave
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  #130  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:12 PM
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I would like as much info on this Victory as possible. I am sending pics as well with markings and numbers to the email you posted earlier. 4", US Property GHD, V715722, P, 38 S&W Special CTG,
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  #131  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinguns View Post
I would like as much info on this Victory as possible. I am sending pics as well with markings and numbers to the email you posted earlier.
Email reply with info sent to you. I hope that it is helpful to you.
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  #132  
Old 03-03-2014, 02:58 AM
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I have a chance to trade for a Victory model. What I am wondering if any Victory models shipped with a nickle finish? This one is a nickle finish. I've only seen the pics so can't say anything else about it except ser# V5630XX, flaming bomb stamp and he says it is 38 special caliber.




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  #133  
Old 03-03-2014, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-mom View Post
Good Morning
I recently received, from a relative, a Victory Model SN V645122. It is a 4", blue finish, lanyard hole in the butt, with no other distinguishing marks that I have identified. The "V" in the serial number on the butt is separated from the actual number by approximately 3/4". Can you give me an approximate ship date?
Thank you
Dave
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Dave,

Just wondered if there's a US Property stamping on the top strap?
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  #134  
Old 03-03-2014, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigrat View Post
I have a chance to trade for a Victory model. What I am wondering if any Victory models shipped with a nickle finish? This one is a nickle finish. I've only seen the pics so can't say anything else about it except ser# V5630XX, flaming bomb stamp and he says it is 38 special caliber.
No. Someone had it nickeled. I'd avoid unless at a good price, maybe $300 or less, purely as a shooter.
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  #135  
Old 03-03-2014, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
No. Someone had it nickeled. I'd avoid unless at a good price, maybe $300 or less, purely as a shooter.
Thanks, can you tell me what the approximate shipping date was?

ser# V5630XX
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  #136  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:08 AM
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Default victory

I recently bought a 38 S&W 2" barrel Victory revolver. Serial number is v143595 on butt, rear face of cylinder and rear of yoke seen through cylinder hole. No lanyard in open hole. Finish is parkerized or similar. Marked "United States Property on left top strap. Previous owner had ejector rod replaced by S&W. Stamped BNP beneath a crown between front of cylinder and barrel and at rear of each cylinder flute. Left side of frame has crossed swords and H B 2. W.E and flaming bomb on butt as well as the letter p. I assume the barrel has been changed as it has no markings other than 95 on bottom above ejector rod. Non standard checkered plastic diamond grips. Can you provide any info on this old beauty?
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  #137  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigrat View Post
Thanks, can you tell me what the approximate shipping date was?

ser# V5630XX
Likely March-April 1944
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  #138  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by grampagunz View Post
I recently bought a 38 S&W 2" barrel Victory revolver. Serial number is v143595 on butt, rear face of cylinder and rear of yoke seen through cylinder hole. No lanyard in open hole. Finish is parkerized or similar. Marked "United States Property on left top strap. Previous owner had ejector rod replaced by S&W. Stamped BNP beneath a crown between front of cylinder and barrel and at rear of each cylinder flute. Left side of frame has crossed swords and H B 2. W.E and flaming bomb on butt as well as the letter p. I assume the barrel has been changed as it has no markings other than 95 on bottom above ejector rod. Non standard checkered plastic diamond grips. Can you provide any info on this old beauty?
Probably from about November 1942. It sounds very much like a chopped .38/200 BSR, having a 2" barrel as you describe. They didn't come that way from the factory.

Immense numbers of surplus S&W .38/200 revolvers were imported in the 1950s and 1960s and "chopped and bored" for better marketability in the USA, where they were sold mail order at prices in the $30 range. Barrels were cut off to 2" and 3" lengths, .38 S&W chambers were bored out to accept .38 Special cartridges, they were re-finished or plated, and replacement grips added (any or all of those atrocities). Consequently, they have no collector value, and are worth only whatever someone will pay for a shooter.

The BNP markings were proof markings applied in England prior to release by the British government for civilian sale. "United States Property" (or later "U. S. Property") topstrap stampings on these indicated Lend-Lease supply to allied countries, mainly the British Commonwealth.
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  #139  
Old 03-04-2014, 01:11 AM
grampagunz grampagunz is offline
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Thank you for the information. This one hasn't been rebored as it won't accept 38 specials. I only paid shooter price but just couldn't let it get away as it feels so good in hand. Should be a great way to burn up some old ammo. I thank you for your expertise.
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  #140  
Old 03-04-2014, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digi-shots View Post
Dave,

Just wondered if there's a US Property stamping on the top strap?
Linda:
I only had the Victory in my hands for a short time and did not notice a US Property marking. Will have it back again this weekend and will check it over more carefully.
Dave
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  #141  
Old 03-13-2014, 08:14 PM
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Default DSC gun?

I also lucked into a Victory model. My father in law was an employee of Chevron up until 2000. By his recollection he purchased this revolver from an old inventory held by their security division. The inventory was carried from the days of Standard oil. The gun is in unfired condition. it has some minor finish damage due to the nails coming loose in the box and floating around in the box. It's serial is V620342. The numbers match on the bottom of the barrel, back of cylinder and butt of gun. Just guessing by responses in the thread this would mean April-May 1944.

It came in the plywood box shown as well as a complement of cartridges and oil. I'd guess from reading the thread that it is a DSC gun as there are no US property markings or armorers marks indicating it was inventoried. I wonder about the box as it was noted elsewhere on the thread that the guns shipped in cardboard boxes? I'm curious as to value as well. My father in law thinks he paid in the neighborhood of $30 in the 1980s. Should I spend the money to get the authenticity letter?

Imgur Page here

Last edited by desertplinker; 03-13-2014 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Updated link
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  #142  
Old 03-13-2014, 10:57 PM
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Yours is probably more like June-July 1944.

I think I'd definitely get a letter. I didn't know any DSC guns were shipped in plywood boxes, and I suspect the box origin is elsewhere. But it's a great revolver.

Last edited by DWalt; 03-13-2014 at 11:00 PM.
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  #143  
Old 04-03-2014, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Probable shipment during late October, 1943.
Thank you very much! I send you this pic, Can you help? Regards, Andrew.
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  #144  
Old 04-03-2014, 08:31 AM
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All sorts of things got stamped on Victories, so it could be anything. Probably someone's initials, crudely applied. Maybe someone else can recognize it.
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  #145  
Old 04-14-2014, 09:29 AM
M18386pounder M18386pounder is offline
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Default I hope i didn't make a mistake

Good Morning,
I just purchased this gun from a local individual. The only thing I knew was that it was a S&W and had been refinished. I then went home and did a bit of online research and that led me here. So, I joined the forum and am now asking the questions I should have asked before I bought the gun. I know maybe someday I will learn. From what I can determine it is a .38 s&w k frame victory model. I have no idea of the age. It seems that it came "Parkerized" and this one has been blued at some point. the hammer and trigger have been jeweled and a nice rib has been added to the barrel. It has a five inch barrel and all of the serial numbers match. The grips look like they are not the original ones although they are s&w. It has no ordinance or US Property marks that I can detect. It does have the three P proof marks. ONe under the barrel, one on the end of the cyinder and one on the left side plate near the top. It is serial number V 654025. My question is how bad does the alterations hurt the value? Is ther a way to determine wher the alterations were done? I will try to post some pictures. Thank you for your patience and interest.
Regards,
Tim
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  #146  
Old 04-14-2014, 09:31 AM
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Default Additional photos

Here are the additional four photos that goes with my original post.
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  #147  
Old 04-14-2014, 12:16 PM
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It's from mid-1944. Is the barrel marked .38 S&W or .38 S&W Special? Obviously, it's a highly modified Victory, and if originally in .38 S&W, its chambers may have been bored to accept .38 Special. In any event, it has no collector value, only as a shooter, which might be $200-$300. That's an unusually high front sight. If you aim for some bad guy's chest, you'll probably hit him in the foot.

The grips are of the type used by S&W in the 1930s.
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  #148  
Old 04-14-2014, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
It's from mid-1944. Is the barrel marked .38 S&W or .38 S&W Special? Obviously, it's a highly modified Victory, and if originally in .38 S&W, its chambers may have been bored to accept .38 Special. In any event, it has no collector value, only as a shooter, which might be $200-$300. That's an unusually high front sight. If you aim for some bad guy's chest, you'll probably hit him in the foot.

The grips are of the type used by S&W in the 1930s.
The Barrel is marked 38 S&W. Thank you for your response.
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  #149  
Old 06-12-2014, 09:11 PM
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Default Any info on Model 10?

In going through some of my father's stuff I found a Model 10 Victory .38 in very nice condition. Can anyone give me any information about it? The serial number on the bottom of the handle is V 416418. There is also a "55" impressed into the wood on the bottom of the handle.
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  #150  
Old 06-15-2014, 08:45 PM
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Thanks for the reply. It is a .38. It is at my parents house so I don't have immediate access to it to answer too many detailed questions. I took some pictures of it and I will try to post them here. Anything else you can tell me about it would be greatly appreciated.
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