Help, I just purchased a S&W Victory model that appears to use .38 S&W ctg. The serial number is V22177, stamped United States Property. I'm on the road and do not have access to my S&W reference book. Any info on when this revolver was built?
Hi. I just acquired a Smith & Wesson Victory in a trade for some used golf clubs. I was doing some research on the gun when I came across this forum. If anybody here can help give me any more information on my gun I would greatly appreciate it!!
It is a 4 inch barrel.
the serial number is V505215
On one side of the barrel it says 38 S. & W. Special CTG
On the top of the frame it has the little bomb insignia followed by U.S. Property G.H.D
There is a P stamped on the frame between the cylinder and the hammer.
On the other side of frame it has the Smith & Wesson trade mark and Made in U.S.A.
Thank you for any info!
Last edited by MontanaMonty; 04-18-2013 at 11:43 PM.
United States Property mark was shortened to "U.S. Property" at serial number V300000. At this time the G.H.D. acceptance mark was moved from the butt to the left top strap. (where it is on my gun) Everything looks proper here.
The G.H.D. is an acceptance mark of Ordinance Officer Guy H Drewry and was placed on guns from 1942 till May 1943. (so a shipping date of early 1944 would make sense)
After 1942 the checkered grips were changed to smooth walnut. My gun has what appears to be the original smooth walnut grips, so everything seems to add up here as well.
After V400000 some Victory models delivered under an Army contract can be found with the P mark that my 38. Special has. ... 352,000 .38 Specials were shipped to the Army and Navy, so again, everything seems to add up.
So I guess my gun was made some time between 1942 to May 1943. And was shipped out in early 1944 to the U.S. Army.
IS there any way for me to find out anything more about this particular gun? If I were to pay Smith & Wesson $50 or is there any book or source that could help me more?
Dill7 - V 550616 would likely have shipped March or April of 1944. See the link in my prior posting. Yours appears to be the British .38/200 version. Regarding value, it all depends upon condition and originality. A great many of the .38/200s were butchered up pretty badly after WWII to make them more attractive for civilian sale. This involved shortening barrels, refinishing, and boring out chambers to accept .38 Special ammunition. Those molested guns have no collector value, and are good only as shooters.
I have a couple more questions: (As seen in the first pic below) before the "U.S. PROPERTY" on the topstrap, it looks like an "8". Also, in the second picture: "1846" is stamped with something above it that kind of looks like a "2". Any ideas as to what these things mean?
No idea of about the first marking, could simply indicate a production line inspection of some kind. The number inside the crane is just an assembly number to keep parts together until final assembly and has no other meaning. Many mistake it for a serial number.
My gun has the exact same mark before the U.S. Property as yours. Some people do mistake that for a number 8 but it is actually a "Bomb". And from what I have been able to gather it is simply a U.S. Government Acceptance marking.
If I am wrong someone can correct me but I did read that yesterday while trying to learn more about my own Victory model.
I have two Victories I would love to have shipping date/info on:
First is a 4" .38 special, no U.S. property marks. On the butt is
"BAC"
"165"
The serial number is V13188
The second is a 5" .38 S&W caliber, "United States Property" mark on the topstrap, no U.S. inspector marks found, no British marks found, marked "OSTERREICH POLIZI" on the top left frame and a large "761" stamped on the left frame, just above the rear triggerguard. I assume that is a rack number.
The serial number is 966674. There is a small "N.B." on the butt, opposite the serial number.
I have two Victories I would love to have shipping date/info on......Any help is appreciated!
Mark
Hello Mark:
Your V13188 most likely shipped from the factory in the June, 1942 time frame. The butt marking of BAC 165 is likely that of Boeing Aircraft Corporation. We have another BAC marked gun listed in the Victory Model Database which is reported as having shipped to Boeing under DSC authorization.
Your 966674 likely shipped from the factory in the April, 1942 time frame. It had a post-war career in service with the Austrian Police.
Thanks for the info!
I thought it's interesting that the .38S&W caliber has no British markings. I thought they all went to the Brits and its colonies. Any thoughts on that?
Most of the .38 S&W revolvers did, in fact, get shipped to the UK and the Commonwealth countries. Not all of those guns were marked by the recipients. A small percentage of the .38 S&W guns were retained for use by US Forces or for transfer to non-UK/Commonwealth allies.
Was hoping to get approx dates of mfg for the following, I posted on the thread for the database, but just got a few comments about the FTR marks which I knew.
Thanks
1)5" 38 S&W united states property marked, wb and flaming ball butt marked, #918094, smooth right grip marked inside matches, original blue or midnight black finish, NZ and 2445 marked on backstrap hump. .358 bore. Probably shipped early (maybe Feb.) 1942.
2)5" 38 S&W united states property marked, wb flaming ball marked, #V25237, parkerized and MA 53 FTR D^D marked, smooth grips, right grip does not match, vega import marked. .357 bore. Probably mid-1942. Have chambers been bored to accept .38 Special?
3)5" 38 S&W united states property marked, wb flaming ball marked, #V138580, parkerized and MA 54 FTR D^D marked, smooth grips, right grip does not match, vega import marked, .361 bore. Probable October 1942. Have chambers been bored to accept .38 Special?
4)4" 38 Special not united states property marked, flaming ball only on butt, right smooth grip matches, V164920, worn matte blue finish, .358 bore. Probable November 1942. Likely intended for stateside law enforcement or defense plant guard use.
Not sure what you are looking for. No one can give you a a date of manufacture, only a shipping date which you seem to already have narrowed down pretty well. They did not ship in serial number order with sometimes large gaps. The victories probably shipped as close to serial number order as any model has, but it is still not a given. A letter will get you a ship date and where it was sent,although for the commonwealth guns it may be the British Purchasing Commision and parts unknown from there. The acceptance marks tell you more. For example, the broad arrow DD would be Australia, but you said you already knew that.
If you are asking if the guns have been bored out, no one but you can ascertain that. Try chambering a 38 special round. If it fits and the barrel says 38 S&W, it's been bored out. This was often done by the importers and there are no records. You find some done well and some not so well. It is nice to find one unbored inbreeding so many were butchered.
Actually, I didn't realize someone did reply with the ship dates and I didn't even notice when I cut and pasted here...none of none of them have been reamed, they are in the original calibers, however the one 38 s&w does ave a larger cylinder throat and bore than the other two.
Hello! I'm trying to find out what information I can about a Smith and Wesson pistol that has been in my family for quite a few years. It has serial number 905979 and WB(?) and the ordinance flaming bomb on the butt. A large P is stamped above the left grip. Checkered grips, no lanyard loop.United States Property on the top strap. 38 S&W Ctg on the barrel, although I know it is modified for 38 special. Along the left side of the barrel are 3 symbols that look like circles with a crown on top and 2 letters inside. The letters look like BV or RV. Preceding the symbols it says "not English make".The same characters are repeated once below the top strap between the cylinder and barrel. The finish is not blue . Thanks for any info you can give me!
You have a pre-Victory model S&W M&P revolver made for the British during WWII. Yours would likely date from early 1941. You do not provide a picture. However, the originals normally had a 5" barrel length (measured from the front face of the cylinder), and a blued finish. Unfortunately, the modified chambers destroy any collector value, but it could be a good shooter. It is safe to fire .38 Special ammunition, but the cases will bulge as the chamber diameter is oversize.
V53254 was shipped in Aug. 1942, Close serial numbers went to the US Navy and to the Hercules Powder Co., so with out a factory letter, you won't know if the gun was a military shipped gun or sent to a war plant's guard unit. It was shipped in S&W's military non-glare finish Sand Blast Blue" so it has been refinished. Ed #15
I noticed that most Victory Models have the V stamp in the same block as the numerical stamp. The one I have has the stamps separated by maybe 1" on the butt. On the cylinder, a l (or maybe a 1) precedes the V. The l and V are together and appear to be stamped lighter on the butt. This is a nickel with a 6" barrel. Is this even a Victory model?
I noticed that most Victory Models have the V stamp in the same block as the numerical stamp. The one I have has the stamps separated by maybe 1" on the butt. On the cylinder, a l (or maybe a 1) precedes the V. The l and V are together and appear to be stamped lighter on the butt. This is a nickel with a 6" barrel. Is this even a Victory model?
Pictures would help, along with more information, such as caliber. I don't remember ever seeing anything like an IV or 1V. Is that only on the cylinder? How about the SN on the bottom of the barrel? Is there a SN stamped inside the right grip panel (assuming smooth grips)? What is the rest of the SN? IF it is a V-model, the 6" barrel would suggest the British version (.38/200) in .38 S&W (that should be stamped on the side of the barrel). If nickeled, there is an extremely high probability the plating was NOT done by S&W.
The s/n on the butt matches the one on the rear cylinder face. It is l V 541219. The right side barrel stamping is 38 s&w special ctg. The grips are checkered with the s&w medallion. The walnut grip on the right side covers one of the four frame bolts. The butt is corroded some so that I can't tell if the l is also on the butt. It does not have a lanyard ring. I find no other marks indicating it was police or military. I will try to get meaningful photos.
Does it have the hole for the lanyard loop? If it is a Victory, it would have shipped about March 1944. Grips do not seem original for a Victory of that time. We'll wait for some pictures before making any other pronouncements. But the |V is strange, at least to me.
I do not see anything before the V on the rear cylinder face. Am I missing something? Without any other markings (such as a U. S. Property stamping), it was probably made for stateside use by law enforcement or defense plant security personnel. The nickel plating is not original. The factory would have not plated these during wartime, but even if it did, the hammer and trigger would not have been plated. Also, the grips are from a much later date. Unfortunately, as it is not in original condition, it has no collector value, only as a shooter - therefore it may be worth only maybe $200-$300.
I have a U.S. Navy marked Victory model, serial #V246255. How do I go about finding out any information on this weapon. There is a lanyard loop hole at the bottom of the metal grip. It is missing a layard. Anyone know where I might find an original to complete the weapon? Thanks.
I have a Navy marked Victory model in the gray dull finish. The weapon is extremely tight and has a trigger that is fantastic. The weapon does not appear to have fired many rounds as the cylinder and timing is perfect. The serial number is V246255, anyone know when it was made? This gun will go to my grandson upon my death. I would like to get documentation on this weapon for his benefit. Who would I contact to get the serial number confirmed and to legitimize this gun as a real Victory model? Thank you in advance
I bought a S&W victory .38 special ctg with a 4 inch barrel and what appears to be a parkerized finish. Would someone PLEASE help me with a few Q's, as follows:
Approximate date?- SN is V62017
Under the checkered (medallions) wood grips there are the letters "R-SB" - the number 678 is over it. There are two "X" on the bottom of the butt under the grips. What do these mean?
There is half a round thing with what looks like a piece of a wing on the bottom of the butt to the left of the lanyad hole - the lanyard ring is missing. I'm wondering if the grips are original (I suspect not). photo(16).jpg
The thing beside the lanyard hole is the "flaming bomb" symbol for the US Army ordinance Corps. This is a standard marking for Victories.
This would have had smooth walnut service grips.
Thanks!!
Would the flaming bomb be on every Victory?
It appears based on other posts that this is an early issue.
Would you happen to know how I figure out the letters under the grips?
Thanks!!
Would the flaming bomb be on every Victory?
It appears based on other posts that this is an early issue.
Would you happen to know how I figure out the letters under the grips?
I appreciate your time and effort. Don
The shipping date on yours would likely have been about August 1942. Unfortunately, your stocks (grips) are not original and are from a much later period, and possibly may not even be authentic S&W products. Most Victories had the Ordnance bomb, but Navy-marked Victories often did not. I notice you did not provide any markings. These would have had a "United States Property" stamping on the top strap if intended for military use, or possibly "U.S. NAVY". If unmarked, it was intended for civilian use by law enforcement or defense plant security guards.
You might look for some authentic smooth stocks and a replacement lanyard loop. Those are available.
I ordered a lanyard ring and am looking for grips. Thanks
On the frame, there are the letters "R-SB"
There are no letters indicating army or navy or any lend lease type writing....THANKS A MILLION
Haunt the gun auction sites and eBay for grips - they turn up. eBay also usually has lanyard loops listed, but you already have one. The DSC Victories for civilian use are not bad to have. Not that many of them were shipped as compared to the military models.
Would someone PLEASE help me with a few Q's, as follows:
Under the checkered (medallions) wood grips there are the letters "R-SB" - the number 678 is over it. There are two "X" on the bottom of the butt under the grips. What do these mean?
There is half a round thing with what looks like a piece of a wing on the bottom of the butt to the left of the lanyad hole - the lanyard ring is missing. I'm wondering if the grips are original (I suspect not).
Donald:
Your Victory has been refinished, and perhaps more than once. The R-SB marking is one that is applied by the S&W factory when it refinishes a gun. The RSB usually refers to "Refinish Standard Blue". The date of the refinish was June, 1978 (678). The stocks that are on it now may have been added at that time. The originals were, of course, smooth walnut.
What is odd is that the current finish is a phosphate type, a form of what is generically referred to today as "parkerizing" (lower case p is deliberate). S&W was not set up to provide a parkerized finish after the end of WW2. However, when the Model 76 SMGs came out in the late 1960s they had a parkerized type of finish. I believe that this finishing was out-sourced by the factory. Perhaps your revolver was refinished in this manner.
That helps tremendously!! I had no clue. I paid 200 bucks for it and I have already put the new lanyard ring on. The bore is like a mirror so if it isn't worth much- it will be fun to shoot. I really appreciate the time and effort you guys put into the replies! Don
new today LGS, probably paid too much @ 300. looks like very early production, 4" barrel, serial #V371xx, ALL numers match, even the smooth wood grips..38 special . no military markings, has loop on butt, finish looks parkerized. the hammer and trigger arent case hardned, they look parkerized also. my camera is broken right now, so no pics avail. i looked for the "S" stamp for the improved transfer bar, the only "S" i found was inside the cylinder crane. is this maybe it? bore/chambers bright/shiny, action very smooth DA/SA, TINY bit of loosness in cylinder back to front. lockup pretty tight on cylinder rotation, as tight as my 1970s mdl 60 chief. looks like 1942 production, without any military markings was it probably NOT issued to the army or navy??? is this called a "K" frame, i am looking for some more comfortable pachmayer grips. i really appreciate every ones help in advance. JON P
Hello, I was wondering what you could tell me about what I think is a victory model that I found in one of my grandfathers tool chests. It sn is v 382389. It's a 4 inch barrel and it's blued. On the barrel it has a crown and under that the letters bnp. Also on the barrel it's marked 3 1/2 tons. With the numbers 38 and .767. On the other side of the barrel is what looks like an hour glass on ether end and 38 S&W ctg in between them. Thanks.
Hello, I was wondering what you could tell me about what I think is a victory model that I found in one of my grandfathers tool chests. It sn is v 382389. It's a 4 inch barrel and it's blued. On the barrel it has a crown and under that the letters bnp. Also on the barrel it's marked 3 1/2 tons. With the numbers 38 and .767. On the other side of the barrel is what looks like an hour glass on ether end and 38 S&W ctg in between them. Thanks.
Your Victory-model M&P likely shipped around August 1943. The markings indicate it is the British version (.38/200) in .38 S&W caliber. If the barrel length is 4", there is a high probability that the original barrel may have been shortened (most .38/200s had 5" barrels), and also that the cylinder chambers may have been bored to accept the.38 S&W Special cartridge. You may wish to see if that is the case. Converted British .38/200 M&P revolvers do not have the value of those in original condition, but it will probably shoot OK.
Thank you for the info. I have been looking at it and the pictures of other guns in the forum and have noticed several things about it. It does not have all the fine wording on the top of the barrel. Also no lanyard hole. I also found on the left side down where the trigger guard meets the frame what looks to be two crossed swords with the letters m then what is either a 3 or s or 8 and then a b in each joint. How can I check to see if it's been rechanbered for 38special? I have found an new old stock barrel in 38 special and an k cylinder in 38 special. Will the k cylinder work? The finish is bad so I was thinking about converting it and refinishing it. It nice and tight gun just too bad I didn't know it been sitting and rusting for 30 years. Thanks.
"How can I check to see if it's been rechanbered for 38special? I have found an new old stock barrel in 38 special and an k cylinder in 38 special. Will the k cylinder work?"
The easiest way is to get a .38 Special cartridge and see if it can be chambered completely. The frame could be fitted with a K-cylinder and a new barrel. But you might not have to skill to get those fitted properly if you have no previous successful experience in doing such work.
Hi guys,
Need help from the pros here!
Got a "cigar" box project. Own a bunch of S&W revolvers, but never had a Victory model.
Got this gun from a friend, delivered in a cigar box as parts. Here goes....
4" in 38spl. 5-screw,finish appears to be paint or black-blued, but not a true bluing job. Serial # V 357453. Some parts are missing. Grips, rebound, and various springs, which I assume I can get from Gun Parts Corp. later.
So what do I have here? Year manufactured. Finish? delivered to who and why.
Thanks for your help guys.
Jess
"How can I check to see if it's been rechanbered for 38special? I have found an new old stock barrel in 38 special and an k cylinder in 38 special. Will the k cylinder work?"
The easiest way is to get a .38 Special cartridge and see if it can be chambered completely. The frame could be fitted with a K-cylinder and a new barrel. But you might not have to skill to get those fitted properly if you have no previous successful experience in doing such work.
Yes a 38 special drops right in. I can also see the ridge where the cylinder has been bored out. If I just change out the barrel for a 38 special and keep the cylinder would it shoot better? Or would it make much difference or should I change out the cylinder too? I have not been able to find a V cylinder in 38 special. It's got to be refinished. Thanks
"If I just change out the barrel for a 38 special and keep the cylinder would it shoot better? Or would it make much difference or should I change out the cylinder too?"
It's a somewhat unsettled question as to whether S&W used the same bore diameter barrels for both the British and US Victory .38 models.
In any event, my experience has been that .357-.358" bullets seem to work OK in .38 S&W barrels. And if you use hollow-base wadcutter bullets, those will expand to fill any .38 S&W bore, just like a Minie ball. Unless the bore is rusted out, etc., I would not replace it. Ditto for the cylinder. Even though bored out, a .38 S&W chamber is not unsafe to use with .38 Special cartridges. The fired cases may bulge due to the slight diameter difference, and cases may or may not have a tendency to stick. You have to shoot them to find out. You can also always fire .38 S&W ammunition in a bored-out chamber if you choose.
"If I just change out the barrel for a 38 special and keep the cylinder would it shoot better? Or would it make much difference or should I change out the cylinder too?"
It's a somewhat unsettled question as to whether S&W used the same bore diameter barrels for both the British and US Victory .38 models.
In any event, my experience has been that .357-.358" bullets seem to work OK in .38 S&W barrels. And if you use hollow-base wadcutter bullets, those will expand to fill any .38 S&W bore, just like a Minie ball. Unless the bore is rusted out, etc., I would not replace it. Ditto for the cylinder. Even though bored out, a .38 S&W chamber is not unsafe to use with .38 Special cartridges. The fired cases may bulge due to the slight diameter difference, and cases may or may not have a tendency to stick. You have to shoot them to find out. You can also always fire .38 S&W ammunition in a bored-out chamber if you choose.
Thanks for your thoughts and info. I think I'm going to just refinish it and keep it for its history.
I have recently been left a Victory model and would love any information you can provide. It is stamped US PROPERTY GHD, Serial # is V693980 Where the serial # appears on the bottom of the barrel, it is followed by the letter P. Bbl is stamped .38 S & W special CTG. The grips are checkered walnut with S&W emblems on both sides. Are you able to tell me when this gun was shipped and to whom? Thank you so much for you help, you guys are a wealth of knowledge!