LAPD plainclothes and 6in. K38s

[tecolote]

I'm pretty certain I've read somewhere about LAPD detectives carrying their 6in. K38s in plainclothes. Can anyone provide any details as to holsters, time frame,etc?

Thanks in advance.

Tecolote

[flagman1776]

I seem to recall from "Cooper on Handguns"... that LA PD were very knowledgeable about ballistics... the same bullet from a 6" K38 approximated a 2.5" .357 with less recoil & blast.
I guess my age is showing.
I'm reading up. LAPD used clamshell holsters for uniform.
Russ

[jimmyj]

In the "Onion Field" incident one or both plain clothes officers carried K-38s.

[OIF2]

It was common for Detectives or plainclothes Ofcrs to carry their 6" issued K38s. Some Coppers didn't want to buy another revolver for concealed carry (ALL LAPD Ofcrs had to carry a full-sized duty weapon, whether plainclothes or uniform), so the 6" was packed under business attire, usually in a crossdraw rig. A favorite was made by Lewis Leather, located first on Hill St downtown, then on Sunset Blvd close by the Academy. Until the late 60's, the 6" revolver was issue. The 2" .38 was a specialized weapon used for back-up (most uniformed guys carried 2 guns), off-duty and Narcotics buys. The 4" .38 (M15 S&W) was issued in the late 60's and the 6" duty weapon was phased out, though if you wanted to keep your 6" you could. Many K38s were cut back to 4" and re-issued. In the late 80's you could buy (at the Academy store) a 6" M68 (a 66 in .38) for duty carry. That was the last of the 6" revolvers on the LAPD.
Bob

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by OIF2

Many K38s were cut back to 4" and re-issued.

Sure would like to find one of those. (smile)

Dave

[shawn mccarver]

Originally Posted by tecolote

I'm pretty certain I've read somewhere about LAPD detectives carrying their 6in. K38s in plainclothes. Can anyone provide any details as to holsters, time frame,etc?

Thanks in advance.

Tecolote

They typically wore them cross draw in the Lewis Police Special holster. Remember, this is not concealment in the same sense as a citizen who is not a police officer. LAPD detectives wore suit jackets or sport coats, but it did not matter much if the weapon was seen due to the jacket swinging out, etc. After all, they were legally authorized to carry concealed!

If you want to see the Lewis Holster, the best place I can think of is in old Dragnet reruns. Both Sgt. Friday and Officer Gannon used the holster, although, true to what LAPD was doing at the time, neither used the 6 inch K38. Gannon carried the 4 inch Model 15 Combat Masterpiece and Friday carried the 2 inch Model 10.

Although I do not remember which one, either Ian Campbell or Karl Hettinger carried a K38 cross draw on the night the two suspects were stopped in Hollywood leading to the kidnapping and murder of Campbell. This incident was recounted in the Joseph Wambaugh book The Onion Field, so named because of where the officers were taken (Hettinger described later how he could smell the onions in the dark).

Massad Ayoob wrote up the incident, if memory serves, in his excellent column in American Handgunner, called The Ayoob Files.

[sheriffoconee]

pic here
F/S 1950’s Vintage Lewis Police Special Holster - Gunboard's Forums

[OIF2]

Here's one of the last ones made, from the Sunset Blvd store. It's a lefty for a 5" M10-5. By the way, the stocks would definitely be against LAPD uniform policy!
Bob

[sheriffoconee]

OIF2, is that a LH holster??? I thought those were to be worn crossdraw??

[OIF2]

Yes, it's a lefty crossdraw... look closely. It's fun to confuse the other 86%!
Bob

[jimmyj]

Hi:
I still use a "Lewis Police Special" holster when ccw a revolver.
I have never found a belt holster for OWB ccw that I like better.
Jimmy

[sheriffoconee]

Originally Posted by OIF2

Yes, it's a lefty crossdraw... look closely. It's fun to confuse the other 86%!
Bob

My bad, as a life long lefty you woulda thought I wasn't as afflicted as the righty's in the world....

[tecolote]

Thanks for all the replies. OIF2,your pic of the LH Lewis jogged my memory; one time in my local bookstore i came a book of crime photos
collected by a LAPD detective.There was a photo of him at his desk wearing his K38 southpaw in a Lewis type holster.
Just how good was the Lewis Police Special?

Regards,

Tecolote

[SG-688]

I remembered this thread, and it seemed a good place to post this picture. The California Homicide Investigators Association meeting hosted by LAPD has a display showing notorious past cases. A few pictures are on the 'net.

From the Onion Field case, this is Ian Campbell's K-38 with Mershon rubber grips. No holster shown though.

[mjr]

Originally Posted by shawn mccarver

If you want to see the Lewis Holster, the best place I can think of is in old Dragnet reruns. Both Sgt. Friday and Officer Gannon used the holster, although, true to what LAPD was doing at the time, neither used the 6 inch K38. Gannon carried the 4 inch Model 15 Combat Masterpiece and Friday carried the 2 inch Model 10.

Officer Gannon (played by Harry Morgan, aka Col. Potter on Mash) first showed up in the 1966 revival of Dragnet. If you can find a DVD with the early 1950s episodes, you can occasionally see Joe Friday's partner pull a 6" revolver from under his sport coat. I can't tell if it's a K-38 or a Model 10.

[SG-688]

[Jebus35745]

I have a 4" 14 that I lettered and it went to Olympic Wholesale in LA. In a previous post a retired LA PD officer believed the 20 guns mine was shipped with went to the police dept. in LA. He stated they went to the 4" bl's. Larry

[mjr]

SG-688, thanks for the pic. Love that tie.

[OIF2]

All the 4" 14s I've examined (probably a couple dozen) were cut-down 6" K38s that the Dept did and re-issued. Very nice work. I'm not sure if the work was done off-site or by our armorers, who had quite the set-up. I could have bought several (also converted to DAO) for a pittance ($100.00 or so) when a lot of these coppers retired and didn't want their revolvers. Alas, I wasn't into S&Ws like I am now...I bought them to SHOOT then. I had several new stainless revolvers and wasn't interested in an old blued LAPD warhorse. I almost didn't buy my issue M67!