Need Help with this one. Early .38 M&P ?? More Info Added.

Hearsedriver · #1 01-22-2012, 12:20 AM

I could really use some help identifying this gun. The seller describes it as a Model 1905 with a serial # in the 18,000 range. I have no knowledge of these older models so any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

DCWilson · #2 01-22-2012, 12:32 AM

That looks like a Model of 1902, First Change; but the serial number in the 18000 range points to a straight 1902, with no change. The problem with that is the flared barrel where it contacts the frame. That's a first-change characteristic, as the pure 1902 has a straight-line barrel with no flare.

Does the number on the flat underside of the barrel match the number on the back of the cylinder and the butt?

ADDENDUM: And that's the wrong box by more than half a century. That may not have been a concern for you, but I thought i should mention it for completeness.

Oyeboteb · #3 01-22-2012, 03:20 AM

Post an image showing the Serial number as it appears on the underside flat of the Barrel...( put a tiny piece of paper or something over the last digits if you are concerned about that ).

Are there any characters stamped on the Grips, visible with the Stocks removed?

Hearsedriver · #4 01-22-2012, 10:27 AM

I have asked the owner for more info and am awaiting his response. We are communicating via email. I will post more as he reponds. Thanks!

Speedo2 · #5 01-22-2012, 11:56 AM

removed PC

DCWilson · #6 01-22-2012, 12:13 PM

Double perplexity!

The barrel thread diameter was enlarged for the 1902 First Change. It would not be possible to put a First Change barrel on an earlier frame without boring and threading a larger hole in the frame to receive it. Going the other way, I don't see how you could put an early barrel on a first change frame without sleeving the barrel aperture in the frame and cutting appropriate old-diameter threads in it.

Hearsedriver · #7 01-22-2012, 12:19 PM

OK, got a littl more info from the seller. All 3 numbers, barrel, cylinder, and butt are 44847. The left side of barrel says "38 s&w special U.S. Service ctg's"

Muley Gil · #8 01-22-2012, 01:01 PM

"All 3 numbers, barrel, cylinder, and butt are 44847."

Well, this number puts it in the middle of the .38 M&P Model of 1902-1st Change production, 33804-62449, 1903-1904.

JSR III · #9 01-22-2012, 01:03 PM

With the corrected serial number, the gun should be a .38 M&P model of 1902 - 1st change. The other number first given was most likely an assembly number used by the factory during construction. Has no bearing now other than to verify that various parts of the gun are original.

Hearsedriver · #10 01-22-2012, 01:07 PM

Thanks. What would you value this gun at, non-original grips and no box. ? I need to make him an offer. Can I shoot modern ammo through it or, is it more of a display piece?

DCWilson · #11 01-22-2012, 01:22 PM

You can shoot modern .38 Special in it, but I would avoid hot loads whether they are labeled +P or not. I have a 1902/first that I shoot 148 gr match wadcutter ammo in -- very accurate, and not much stress for an old gun.

I'm assuming the stocks are plastic or synthetic ivory. If they are real, that would add to the value of the gun.

I know the pictures aren't your fault, but they are a little blurry to form a true judgment of finish condition. If the action is sound and alignment good, and if bore and chambers are unpitted and clear, this could be a $300-325 shooter. If the stocks are real ivory, maybe 450-500.

A couple of years ago I paid $400 for a 1902/first with a four inch barrel, original stocks, and probably a better preserved finish than what I think I see here. I got a vintage holster with the deal too. That's my only point of comparison.

JSR III · #12 01-22-2012, 01:32 PM

There is no collector value to the gun due to the condition, the non original stocks and no box. As David has stated, it is considered a shooter grade revolver. I don't think that the stocks are ivory as they are so bright white and ivory or stag usually yellow with age. I would agree that as a shooter, the gun is probably a $300 to $350 value. Sellers don't always agree on prices but although the gun is over 100 years old, it is not rare as there were almost 30,000 of them made. In the case of this revolver, the box would almost be as valuable as the gun.

Hearsedriver · #13 01-22-2012, 01:38 PM

I was thing $250-300.00 for it too. The finish does look pretty gray or non-existant and some pitting but, if the bore is decent adn lock-up is good, I wouldnt mind having it for a shooter just due to the historical significance. Thanks for all of the help. If I end up buying it, I will take some good pictures and post them.