IS IT REFINISHED? Here are some closeups of the gun. There are a couple spots of corrosion on the left side. In front of the cylinder stop are two round circles in the frame, I am not sure what they are but they seem sharp. There is some old corrosion (gone) by the muzzle. I have looked at it carefully with a magnifying glass, I don't see anything under the finish.

To me it doesn't look refinished, but in really nice shape. The dealer just took it in trade, actually called it a Regulation Police.

Also there are a couple spots of rust that I would like to take off without removing the blueing, someone suggested Hoppes with a toothbrush

Any thoughts.

I really cannot help you with your question, sorry. I instead have a question about the case hardening colors on the trigger and hammer. I have never seen anything like what you have, to me it looks like something has dissolved the coloring in spots or something was on the steel to keep it from getting colored in those spots. Just for my own curiosity I was wondering if someone could mention if they had come from the factory like that or if not, what would give it that appearance?

I wonder if the parts could have been oily? I don't know anything about the process of case hardening.

Regarding the gun's finish - I would remove the grips, liberally coat that gun with Corrosion-X, put it in a baggie, and let it sit for a couple of days. Then, wipe down the gun - using bronze wool (softer than steel wool) to go over any areas that exhibited rust. This method has worked very well for me in the past. I'll bet thse rust spots would be pretty much gone afterwards.

Good Luck,

Jerry

My opinion is the gun is not refinished.

From the close up photos I see no evidence that it has been reblued, no dished screw holes, no rounded edges, although the trademark looks a little light I have seen that on many older guns, some of mine look the same.

Hello,
It does not appear, from the pictures you shared, that your gun has been refinished; some rust spots are not uncommon on older blued guns. Case-hardening on the hammer and trigger can be affected by normal wear-and-tear, since it is a surface-hardening process only (the hardening does not go very deep into the steel). Some people have claimed that WD-40 can actually damage or cause fading of case-hardened parts. I don't see anything unusual in the wear of these parts; time and use affect all things, especially surface finishes.
The best way I have found to remove small spots of surface rust on a blued gun is to use 0000 steel wool and a lubricant/gun oil ( I have used Break Free, Kroil, and an excellent product called RB-17) and rubbing very, very lightly; most surface rust will remove without harming the underlying bluing.

I don't think the gun is refinished. The frame edges seem too sharp to be anything other than original. Same with the side plate. The logo stamp looks as though it still has high edges (impact crater effect).

Something is wrong with the case hardening colors, but I don't know what. I don't recall seeing that kind of pattern failure before. Case colors can fade or be worn off, but that's not what happened here.

The small circles in the frame above the trigger guard are the ends of the cylinder stop pin and the trigger stud. They are ordinarily polished flat to the frame and blued or nickeled into invisibility, but sometimes they can be seen. They are also obvious on the modern alloy-frame revolvers, where they are a completely different color because of the different metal used.

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David Wilson

[QUOTE=kean57;135433758]Hello,
Some people have claimed that WD-40 can actually damage or cause fading of case-hardened parts. [QUOTE]

I wonder if the case hardening color "change" could be due to cleaning with some kind of agent that didn't hurt the blueing but did something to the case hardening.
I could swear I see an indication where the case hardening extended (i.e. looked more normal)

Based on the sideplate fit and the lack of "dished" screw holes I'd bet this gun has not been refinished.
The circles in the cylinder stop area are normal. They are pins that are polished flat on the older guns. Sometimes they're even more pronounced than on your gun.

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John

Couple of comments here.

First - if the gun had a layer of cosmoline on it, for decades, then
pitting is common. Its been discovered that cosmoline attracts or
traps moisture under it, and the result is pitting. It looks like that is
what happened to the trigger, and possible some other area of the
surface.

Second - now that everyone has voted about the refinish issue, let
me point out something. I had originally suggested that the finish
looked too good for a gun that, presumably, saw service in WW2. I
didn't say it was refinished - it just looks too good, to me

But - and this is the important point, Roy Jinks has pointed out to
many of us that the factory could refinish a gun, and NO ONE COULD
TELL . There is a good reason for this - they were the ones who
finished the gun in the first place. Furthermore, we know that there
are factory-original guns whose finish has been changed by the
factory, and the ONLY way to know this is because its mentioned in
the factory records.

I know this for a fact. I own the first post-WW2 K-32. It was
originally a blue salesmans sample for over a year. When the first
order for a nickel gun came in, they refinished it to nickel, and
shipped it that way. There is no way to know this, looking at the gun.

I know this for another reason. I owned a .38 M&P target, from
about 1938, as I recall. The gun had been shipped 8 years earlier, as
an M&P. It didn't sell, so 8 years later it was returned for full credit.
The factory converted it to target, and sold it a second time. Given
the machining work necessary, it had to be refinished. But you can
not tell that, by looking at it.

My message here is that voting about a possible refinish is the
wrong approach. Sometimes it obvious, but other times it is not.
There may well be a lot of factory-refinished guns, with no service
department markings, that we own. We don't worry about those.
And in the case of this gun, we shouldn't worry about it. We will
probably never know the answer, and it doesn't matter. What does
matter is where it was shipped, and when. Then the story might
become more interesting.

Regards, Mike Priwer

I mailed the request for the factory letter today! I want to find out a couple things, it's birthday and where it went. I will pull the grips to see if there are any markings under them.
The bore is so shinny it hurts the eyes! And it shoots great. I wonder if there are records on refinishing, but as I remember they would only have records if it was a huge order.

I am very happy with the gun and especially the price $300. I just love blued revolvers.

"Service gun" other than the caliber, there are no indications of it being a service gun, well other than the lanyard ring. The dealer had it marked as a Regulation Police, little did they know.
I am very happy with it and it is one of my 3 38 S&W's.

We will see what Roy says when he catches up on letters after his recent trip.

If I had to say, I would say that this gun along with a post war 38 M&P I bought recently are my favorite guns, well maybe along with the Pre-Model 18, and the 3 USN Victory's ......

I meant to add one further comment. If the gun didn't see any active
service in WW2 ( and we may never know the answer to that ), then its
entirely possible that it simply sat in a box, maybe in cosmoline or
maybe in some anti-rust paper, for decades. If that were the case,
then its condition would be very very good- near mint. This is why
its so important to get some information about its early days.

Later, Mike Priwer

Thank you Mike!

Half the fun of older guns is trying to find out their history! My other two 38 S&W's are lettered to the Armoury in Hartford (I don't remember for sure I am at work) which may be why neither had import marks.

I can't wait for the factory letter!

Your thoughts on Cosmoline may be close to the truth.

Now I have to wait on the letter, sent for it yesterday.

I sure wouldn't pay $50 to letter a Victory Model. All you get is the armory where it was sent and that's not worth $50 to me. But then, I balked at the $50 from the start and have not lettered any gun since the price went to that level.

Unfortunately, rust is forever. No way to fix it short of removing the metal. Rust isn't in the finish, it's in the metal.

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No life story has happy end.

The finish looks original to me. I have 100's of blue S&W revolvers that look just like this one. OK well maybe not 100's but at least 2 or 3. (I just said that to see if everyone was awake this morning)

As has been said, the factory could refinish any gun in the old days and today you would not be able to tell if it was "as made" original finish. Personally, I'm not sure if I really care anymore unless the gun has obvious signs like a blued trigger or completely buffed out lettering.

Clean her up, stop any further rusting and go to the range and shoot it.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I ran a box of .38 S&W's through it the day after I got it, it shoots great!
Some of my 100's of Victory's (actually only 5) have had an occaisional light hammer strike failing to set off the primer. I usually try cleaning out the area where the hammer hits and firing pin goes through the frame and that had solved all but one gun. On that one I replaced the firing pin and it is good now.
This one locks up tight as a drum and gave real good impressions on every primer.
Shoots like a charm. I am reloaded the 38 S&W's and casting my own bullets, one of my molds throws bullets at .360

Any update? Curious how this turned out!

Sorry about that, I forgot to update the thread.

The letter came back...

It was sent on Aug 20, 1941 to the British Purchasing Commission, New York City, NY. It was shipped with a 5 inch barrel, blue finish, butt swivel, and checkered walnut grips.

It appears all correct, the blue finish is factory.

Ben,

Just an observation --from the picture you posted it appears as though maybe the screws on the side plate were removed at some point in time. You may want to take the side plate off and check for any further rust inside.

I did this once and was amazed at the internal neglect. Unless it's a gun that is ANIB I do this routinely now and have been very surprised at how neglected the internals of most revolvers are.

Just FWIW.

Steve

Good point.
I had just acquired a S&W Pre-10 Boston Police Marked gun with letter from the Officer who carried it, I pulled the grips, looking at the sort of rusty screw and how it was filled with fluff, I bet they were NEVER off the gun, they numbered to the gun but there was a fair amount of rust under the grips that I have to take care of.

I believe this is an excellent example of a Pre-Victory, looking at the ship date, as that is what Roy called the one I asked him about, which was also shipped in Oct. 1941. A 5", M&P in 38 S&W, with the same large medallion stocks, but mine is now a "parkerized" type of finish as it was shipped to Australia and rebuilt before being re-imported. It is S/N 833351, and could have possibly been in the same issue as yours. I wished mine had fared as well as yours did. Mechanically, mine is excellent and is a good shooter.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244