OK, so I picked up this S&W this week, and need some help identifying exactly what it is. The seller had it listed as a Victory model, built between 1942 and 1945, and claims it is the "Government Model". The gun appears to have never been blued, either than or the bluing is 100% gone. That seems doubtful considering this gun barely had much of a turn line, and locks up very solidly all the way around. It looks like it has barely been shot.

After looking at some photos of other "Victory" model guns, I have yet to find one with the same type of barrel (HD barrel I believe it is called). The gun is marked as 38 S&W Special CTG on one side, S&W on the other. The grips look the same age as the gun, but cover part of the S&W crest, leading me to believe they may have been older replacements.

I think it is a pre-29, 5 screw and not a Victory, but I'm new to S&W's, so I really have no idea. Did the gun really come from the factory like this (original grips, no bluing, etc.)? I don't have the serial number (or the gun) in front of me, but I will post that in the next couple of days.

Any helpful direction that you could point me in would be greatly appreciated. I am trying to determine what the gun actually is, and hopefully determine an estimated value for it. Thanks in advance to anyone who can be of assistance. I will try to post the serial number in the next couple of days.

Hi, and welcome! From the photos you have a .38/44 Outdoorsman, which was built on the N or large frame. It was built after WW II and before 1957 based on the four sideplate screws and the right side frame stamping with four lines. It is called the "pre-23" because it was named the model 23 after 1957.

The grips/stocks are aftermarket. It was originally blue from the factory, but based on the closeup of the right frame the metal was heavily pitted and the blue was removed. An unfinished gun would be silver, so it may be Parkerized, which may explain the seller's confusion with the Victory Model that came from the factory with a similar finish.

When you are able to post the SN, someone can tell you the year it was shipped. Hope this is helpful.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Welcome to the forum AveryDr;

Just for fun I’ll post what it looks like to me, but don’t take this as expert advice. I don’t have similar vintage N frames to compare your pictures against and I haven’t looked at any books.

It appears the frame is a pre model 20 fitted with an adjustable sight and pre model 23 or model 23 barrel that was never polished. Notice the adjustable sight was not installed as deeply into the frame as normal and the front of the frame is not contoured to the same height as the barrel rib. Also it appears the barrel pin is missing. The original turn line probably was removed when rust was cleaned off. Note the pitting on the frame, and the cylinder stop notches are worn from quite a bit of firing. Could it be the barrel was smuggled out of S&W in a lunch box to make an employee’s rescued gun usable? The metal looks more like aged bare metal than parkerized metal, but I surely can’t tell which based on these pictures. The stocks appear much newer than the metal.

I can’t pronounce it safe or unsafe to fire, but I would not be surprised if it shoots great.

It’ll be fun reading what the experts post in the morning.

Nighty night;

Gil

Gil, sharp eyes! I thought this was just a regular Pre-23 rame with a replacement barrel until you mentioned the business of the rear sight. I bet you are right.

Afterthought: Perhaps the rear sight appears to be set shallow in the frame because some of the surrounding steel was polished away when rust was removed. So I guess i am still not sure what the original situation was with the frame.

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David Wilson

Welcome to the forum. One of the first things that you need to do is remove the stocks and see what the serial number is. Does that number appear anywhere else on the gun? It is not a pre 29 as you suspected as the 29 is a 44 magnum and yours is marked 38 S&W Special.

I agree with others that the barrel rib looks higher than the frame that it is mounted on and may be an indication of a replaced barrel. More close up photos of that area would help. I am not sure about the rear sight as I have several older smiths that look very similar. Could also be the angle of the photo.

What was the serial number that the seller used to transfer the gun? That should match the one on the butt and not be one that was taken from the frame. Many sellers unfamiliar with S&W's pull an assembly number off the gun and think that it is the serial number.

Just my .02 worth and again welcome to the group.

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James Redfield
LM #497

This pretty much nailed it.
Probably a 38 Heavy Duty modified into the configuration of a 38 Outdoorsman.

I'll add-
Unfinished barrels were dumped by S&W in some quantity several years ago. This is one of them. They were complete except for the final polish.
The gun looks parkerized to me.
It looks like the barrel pin is there.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Wow, thanks for all of the responses. As I am in CA, the gun is in "gun jail" for the next 8 days or so. I am hoping to be in the shop tomorrow, and will pull it out and try to get both serial numbers, and snap some more pictures.

If it is a 38/44 Outdoorsman with a replacement barrel, is it worth restoring? I have $350 into it, but don't really want to sink a bunch of money into it if it isn't going to be a decent investment. I've got a Model 10 that already shoots like a dream, so if it's just going to be a shooter, I'll probably leave it as is.

The heavy pitting surprises me. The gun feels like it is brand new, and doesn't really show any signs of a rough life. I'll inspect further and get some better pictures and numbers this week.

Thanks!