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  #1  
Old 06-05-2010, 12:45 AM
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Default King Super Target Rib

Was this a factory option or just aftermarket? In todays dollars, what would the rib add valuewise when comparing 2 guns of equal age and condition?
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:58 AM
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As far as I know, King sights were always an aftermarket. I have a 38 M&P that was shipped in 1948 and delivered directly to King's in San Francisco. King's then put the Super Police Night Sight package on the pistol and sold it. I'm sure that more were done by the owners of the gun then sent directly to King's to do, but I am not sure.

As far as value goes, it's all in the eyes of the beholder. I really don't know how a King's ribbed sight would affect the value. If it was me, I would think it would bring a bit more money, but some people like their guns to be totally stock.
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsforsmiths View Post
As far as I know, King sights were always an aftermarket. I have a 38 M&P that was shipped in 1948 and delivered directly to King's in San Francisco. King's then put the Super Police Night Sight package on the pistol and sold it. I'm sure that more were done by the owners of the gun then sent directly to King's to do, but I am not sure.
What did the Super Police Night Sight package entail? I would assume that since this gun did not actually leave the factory with the King rib, it would not letter as having it. It would be cool if it did though.

While we are doing this, post your pics of guns with King ribs. I realize that there are some in archived threads, but many of the pics have been deleted or removed.
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:51 AM
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I don't have one and wish I did. My dream would be to have a prewar .38/44 Outdoorsman so equipped, and with thumbrest Ropers as well. A .38 M&P Target model with a King rib sight would also fit in my safe.

I would expect the sight to add at least 10-15% to the value of the gun alone, and I wouldn't be surprised if the owner asked more.

I also know some people think these are ugly monstrosities. That's fine -- the reduced competition will keep the price from rising higher for those of us who like them.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:15 AM
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Here we go...
Don


The front sight is a King red bead w/reflector base.
Rear sight is a King U-notch/white outline.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:20 AM
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So: wanna sell it?

I had a mental image of that gun in my mind when I composed my message, but I had forgotten who posted it. Thanks for taking the hint.

I forget -- is your gun prewar or transitional? Not that it matters; it's a beauty in either case.
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:37 PM
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A .38 M&P Target model with a King rib sight would also fit ....



cock-eyed hammer..

and mirror front site.

and i really need to take better pic's...

Last edited by kritter; 06-05-2010 at 05:39 PM. Reason: trying for better pic's
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:41 PM
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They do grow on you. And they do cost more.





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Old 06-05-2010, 01:37 PM
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K-22 Outdoorsman
King Super Target Rib
Cockeyed Hammer
Roper Grips
S.D. Myres Holster---





King ribs were aftermarket additions.
Most King Sights seen on S&W's are aftermarket, the notable exception being Reg Mags.

The "Super Police night sights" usually consisted of milling the 1/2 moon off an M&P type gun and installing a gold or ivory bead. The fixed rear notch was machined into a slightly larger U with a white outline.

I don't think King ordered many, if any, guns from S&W merely to convert them and then sale them from inventory. Of course it is possible that customers ordered a gun from King, and King then ordered the gun to modify. We do know customers sometimes ordered guns from S&W, and had them shipped directly to King for custom work. I have seen guns that lettered that way.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:53 PM
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Default KING GUNS

HI
here is a 1926 3th model that is king sighted it is as new unfired except from the factory.
I also have king sighted guns in all 44 models from the triple lock thru the
model 21. they will be in my display at the annual meeting.

jim fisher.

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Old 06-06-2010, 04:12 PM
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David,
The gun shipped in July of 1937.
Went (along with three others) to the King Sight Co., San Francisco.
Roy thinks King did the modifications before selling the guns.
This one went back to S&W in the mid-60's for a pretty thorough rebuild and a first-rate carbona refinish.
It has a few postwar (replacement) parts...
and a v e r y light s.a. trigger!
Glad you find it pleasing.
Don
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Old 06-07-2010, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHENRY View Post
David,
The gun shipped in July of 1937.
Went (along with three others) to the King Sight Co., San Francisco.
Roy thinks King did the modifications before selling the guns.
This one went back to S&W in the mid-60's for a pretty thorough rebuild and a first-rate carbona refinish.
It has a few postwar (replacement) parts...
and a v e r y light s.a. trigger!
Glad you find it pleasing.
Don
Don
Was the above information, including it going back for a refinish, in a S&W letter or did you figure it out from dates on the frame? Also, would it be assumed that King only did the external modifications or would they have done action work too? Thanks.
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Old 06-07-2010, 06:10 PM
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boykinip,
Most of the information came from the factory letter, some from conversation with Roy and David Carroll.
King did hammers, action work, and custom target grips, as well as the add-ons like the rib.
Somewhere around here I have a D.W. King catalog featuring all the handguns (Colt, S&W) as well as the long guns they sold.
It's from the late 1930's, and even includes the Registered Magnum.
A buyer could purchase a bone-stock gun from King, or the accessorized version...almost any way they wanted it.
Don
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Old 06-07-2010, 06:38 PM
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Love seeing those pictures of the King revolvers! Very, very nice!
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:14 PM
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Might as well show the 1917 Kings Target that was an Air force Colonels. after some careful inspection of the gun it was speculated by those more in the know than me that the Mods were done at the Factory.



here is an old Triple lock that was coverted aftermarket probably by Kings



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Old 06-07-2010, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan M View Post
Might as well show the 1917 Kings Target that was an Air force Colonels. after some careful inspection of the gun it was speculated by those more in the know than me that the Mods were done at the Factory.
Very nice 1917 and TL. Did you get the 1917 lettered?
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:41 PM
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Dan,

What a beautiful revolver, King's really had the stuff to doll up those pre-war Smiths!

Could you post more pictures of this 1917, I almost missed the trigger guard..... WOW!
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:12 AM
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This is one of the guns I had to sell after my house fire last year But i know where it is and who knows maybe some day I will get it back

Here are the rest of the pictures I have of it






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Old 06-10-2010, 12:29 AM
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Dan,
Very interesting.
That 1917 is probably a post war gun. Did it have the modern hammer block?
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:40 AM
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Lee,

I cant remember, I'll see if I cant get Clem M. to bring it to the SWCA meeting next month.

Dan
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
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What does the rolling say on the side of the barrel?
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:01 PM
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it says U.S.A.F.R. for United States Air Force Reserves. the Rib above has the Colonels name and ID #. He has a son who is a retired Air Force General.
I traded a pre model 36 Chiefs Special target straight across for this one and was pretty excited when I got it.

Dan
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:34 PM
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I found this online and thought it was interesting. Can't believe he did not show pictures though.
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Last edited by boykinlp; 08-05-2010 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 06-14-2010, 10:36 PM
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Here is what the Super Police Night Sights consist of. It was shipped from the factory in 1948 to the King's Gun Sight Co. with the standard sights.



The addition on the white half moon rear sight. It is milled out and the white paint added.




Last edited by nutsforsmiths; 06-14-2010 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:46 PM
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to all the people showing their king guns, all are beautiful. it took a serious target shooter with some extra money back in the day to have these done. how many of you have shot them and how do they perform as compared to factory configuration? for those who look for these, do you usually see high condition guns with the king mods? i would think most guys would be quite proud of them and take extra care in their use.
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:46 PM
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well mine, I just got it a few weeks ago..but..I've been shooting it when ever i can...probally close to 500 rounds so far.. performance wise it's hard to say..I might shoot it a little better than my K.38 but, it all depends on the day and how well I'm doing...

the way it handles is just ... different... the weights more, not really ballanced but towards the muzzle,, but not really.... kinda hard to explain.. it just feels "right"..

as for condition of other Kings I've seen.....I haven't. this is the first one I've ever seen in person. ( I had to have it )

the condition of mine when I got it was used...well used...action was as smooth as I had ever felt on a S&W.. lock up & timeing was perfect.. blueing was almost gone....LOL...

this little puppy had been around the block a few times..handled enough that the finish had been removed but never abused..

who ever had mine made up, used it and from the looks used it well.. and I'm glad they did....
when it first came home..

little bit of blueing wear...
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:20 PM
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perazzi,
In answer to your question about actually shooting a King Super Target...
I bought mine to (occasionally) shoot.
It gets a lot of attention at the range.
The action is real smooth.
I figured the gun would make me a pretty darn good bullseye shooter.
The gun prints high (with both 148 gr wadcutters and 158 gr lrn's.)
Sights are so small I can't see them very well.
Truthfully, my plain old 38/44 OD's and the Colt OM's outshoot this puppy.
Still, all in all a beautiful gun.
Glad I have it.
It sits in the safe (:>)
Don
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:26 PM
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There is a beautiful K-22 Outdoorsman with a King Super Target Rib in the Missouri Cabela's. The serial number is very low; it would have been only the 26th OD off the line in 1931.

Yes, I went after it. No, I didn't get it. It's on layaway for someone else. The item number is 1669652 for those who want to search for it. It seems to have been refinished (star after the serial number), but if so it was a beautiful job.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson View Post
There is a beautiful K-22 Outdoorsman with a King Super Target Rib in the Missouri Cabela's. The serial number is very low; it would have been only the 26th OD off the line in 1931.

Yes, I went after it. No, I didn't get it. It's on layaway for someone else. The item number is 1669652 for those who want to search for it. It seems to have been refinished (star after the serial number), but if so it was a beautiful job.
That gun is the reason that I started this thread. I was trying to find out, and still am, as much as I could about them before buying it. I was able to talk them down some, still paying more than I wanted to. I just don't see these for sale very often and the very low serial number is what sealed the deal for me. Being able to put in on layaway helps. The star has me alittle concerned. I, like you, thought if it was a refinish, it was well done. It will be awhile before I actually put my hands on it and the wait will be hard. Really gives me something to look forward to though.

I still hope to see some more King revolvers. I know there are more out there.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:32 PM
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I'm sure the wait will be hard, but it looks like an excellent two-for-one collector's piece. Either the rib or the serial number would be reason enough to go after it, but having both on the same gun makes it an absolute winner. Congratulations!

(And congratulations too on getting them to come down a bit. I also thought the gun was a little overpriced.)
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kritter View Post
A .38 M&P Target model with a King rib sight would also fit ....

kritter
What make of grips do you have on your King Revolver? Were they custom made for you?
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:34 PM
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I think the grips are Herrett's or the "stiles" knock offs....not really sure...not custom made but "opened up" and fitted for my hand...( I have some big ole "meathook" hands) gun points almost naturally for me now..
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:10 AM
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Default Not sure I should do this

but here's my King's Super Target. Strangest S&W I ever did see.
Honestly though, only King gun I have ever seen in real life.




Last edited by phenson; 11-04-2010 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
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but here's my King's Super Target. Strangest S&W I ever did see.
Honestly though, only King gun I have ever seen in real life.
I think that is the strangest S&W that I have ever seen too. But I think the reason is because it is a COLT. LOL. I know you knew this because of your title of your thread. It is wild looking. I like the cockeyed hammer and wonder who made the grips, maybe King. The backstrap on your Colt is checkered. Maybe they come that way, but if not, I think I read that was also a thing that King would do.
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:38 AM
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I don't currently have a King Super Target.

I do have this old doggie with a Half Rib.
5 inch Mod 1926.
Red insert Patridge
Pachyderm grips

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Old 06-20-2010, 11:47 AM
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I don't currently have a King Super Target.

I do have this old doggie with a Half Rib.
5 inch Mod 1926.
Red insert Patridge
Pachyderm grips

That is one high front sight, how does it shoot?
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:06 PM
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There are alot of neat things in the King Gunsight Catalog.

I thought the tubular magazine idea was really wild. Three different weights changing the balance of the gun, from 3 different metals, mercury (probably illegal now), steel, and aluminum. Has anbody seen one of these?



Was this the first .22 conversion kit? I wonder how well it works. I have seen conversions for autos, never for a revolver.



King seemed to be way ahead of his time. Lots of ideas, but since the company went out of business, it makes me wonder if the ideas worked as he intended them to.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:49 PM
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I own several of the Colt-King Super Target Woodsman pistols and they work exactly like D.W. King (and target shooters of the day) wanted them to. I published an article a couple of years ago about them for the Colt Collectors Association.

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Old 06-21-2010, 02:38 PM
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I saw a 2nd Model HE 44spl at a gunshow a while back that looked everything in the world like a King Super Target; rib, reflector front sight, hammer, etc. but there wasn't a King mark on it anywhere!!! The gun was pretty decent, had a factory refinish star and K frame grips on it. Looking back on it I should have paid the $650 the guy was asking for it.
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:43 PM
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They generally aren't marked except for a tiny stamp on the sights which is easy to overlook and/or often buffed off if the gun has been refinished.
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Old 06-22-2010, 03:36 PM
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Kevin
That is a great gun. If you have a picture, I would like to see what the weights look like. We would love to see a copy of your article too.
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:14 AM
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S&W 32WCF King Super Target:



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Old 06-26-2010, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boykinlp View Post
I think that is the strangest S&W that I have ever seen too. But I think the reason is because it is a COLT. LOL. I know you knew this because of your title of your thread. It is wild looking. I like the cockeyed hammer and wonder who made the grips, maybe King. The backstrap on your Colt is checkered. Maybe they come that way, but if not, I think I read that was also a thing that King would do.
I'm not totally sure, but almost certain he checkered the backstrap. What I'm wondering about is the trigger. It is checkered on the face. Its not like my newer Python, I just wonder if D W King did the trigger as well?
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
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I'm not totally sure, but almost certain he checkered the backstrap. What I'm wondering about is the trigger. It is checkered on the face. Its not like my newer Python, I just wonder if D W King did the trigger as well?
phenson
If you look at post #15 in this thread by Dan M, his last picture is of a checkered trigger by King. I believe that it is a trigger shoe though. It is checkered on the face and says King on the side. So, he made have only done the trigger shoe or he may have even done the triggers themselves. Does yours say King on the side? I would assume he would put his name on it if it was done by him.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:55 AM
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handejector, are those genuine Walt Ropers on your K-22? That's an unusual style with the "widow's peak" at the bottom like that.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:24 AM
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Hello
King made some wonderful looking Sight packages. A company that came after them was called The Micro Sight Corp.. I have heard that they stole some of King's ideas and Patents and were eventually forced out of Business for doing so. Shown is a Second series .455 Hand eejct re-chambered in .45 Colt Caliber. it shipped in 1916 and has been converted with a Micro Sight Corp. adjustable Rear sight and Very High Front sight blade...







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Old 12-09-2011, 08:51 AM
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Kurt, if I knew you had one of those I completely forgot about it. Here's mine, 73778 (July 1916), .45 Colt (converted by planing the recoil shield, not the back of the cylinder), refinished, Micro sight package. I never had the original stocks, however.



When you get one of those large-block rear sights on the gun, the front sight needs to reach for the stratosphere. The front sight profiles on our guns are different, but otherwise...

To honor the original purpose of the thread, I'm hoping to connect with a King Super Target at some point. I have a few guns with King reflector sights, or other maker bead sights and King white-outline round bottom rear sight leaves, but haven't yet managed to find the Holy Grail of King sights.
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Last edited by DCWilson; 12-09-2011 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DCWilson View Post
Kurt, if I knew you had one of those I completely forgot about it. Here's mine, 73778 (July 1916), .45 Colt (converted by planing the recoil shield, not the back of the cylinder), refinished, Micro sight package. I never had the original stocks, however.



When you get one of those large-block rear sights on the gun, the front sight needs to reach for the stratosphere. The front sight profiles on our guns are different, but otherwise...

To honor the original purpose of the thread, I'm hoping to connect with a King Super Target at some point. I have a few guns with King reflector sights, or other maker bead sights and King white-outline round bottom rear sight leaves, but haven't yet managed to find the Holy Grail of King sights.



Hello David
This Gun came from a Dear friend, Through a work Barter deal. He shared with me that it was owned by a Fighter Pilot of the Canadian Royal Navy and that it flew missions with him during World War I. He had it converted to .45 Colt as he felt the .455 Cartridge was Anemic. I too Long to have a King conversion revolver and would have scored one at the 2009 Annual S&WCA meeting in Troy, Michigan as I had an eye on the same exact one that Don Warner grabbed and has shown in this thread, but elected to buy my 1935 Registered Magnum Instead.. I Have Not seen one since, but am alway's looking for one to add... Hammerdown
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by boykinlp View Post
That is one high front sight, how does it shoot?
The front sights on non-ribbed guns do look very high. Look at the ribbed guns and you'll notice that the height is actually about the same, they just don't LOOK as high. If you add the rib height to the blade height, you'll get a very tall front sight.



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Originally Posted by rlee1976 View Post
handejector, are those genuine Walt Ropers on your K-22? That's an unusual style with the "widow's peak" at the bottom like that.
They are genuine Ropers.


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Originally Posted by Hammerdown View Post
Hello
King made some wonderful looking Sight packages. A company that came after them was called The Micro Sight Corp.. I have heard that they stole some of King's ideas and Patents and were eventually forced out of Business for doing so.
Micro was started by some former King employees as I recall. I don't think they were forced out by the suit. King won some damage money, but not enough to make the effort worthwhile.
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Last edited by handejector; 12-09-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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  #50  
Old 12-09-2011, 10:40 AM
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IIRC, there were 3 major outfits building high end adjustable sights for target use, King, Micro, and Triangle. You see virtually identical (mechanically) versions of all 3 on .45 hardball guns from the late pre-War period through about the '60s. As memory serves, King started first with a variety of sights back to the WW I period give or take, and Micro outlived Triangle by a little as the popularity of formal bulls eye shooting waned. If you look at the 3 side by side, you can see an awful lot of similarity, but it might be a matter of "form follows function." BTW, didn't Ruger use Micro sights on their adjustable sighted guns for a while until they started making their own??

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