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05-07-2021, 06:47 PM
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Registered Magnum #3
Hello all
Had a guy show up at my shop with the original registration and sales receipt for Registered magnum #3-
Guess his grandfather had it and it was stolen in the 30's
Anyway If anyone has the gun now- he is willing to re-unite the paperwork with the gun- If not I may try to purchase and display in my gun room.
I do have pictures if anyone is interested.
Terry Jones
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05-07-2021, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elinvar23
Hello all
Had a guy show up at my shop with the original registration and sales receipt for Registered magnum #3-
Guess his grandfather had it and it was stolen in the 30's
Anyway If anyone has the gun now- he is willing to re-unite the paperwork with the gun- If not I may try to purchase and display in my gun room.
I do have pictures if anyone is interested.
Terry Jones
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Do you have pictures of the gun? Yes, very interested! You didn't buy it
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05-07-2021, 07:11 PM
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I'd also like to see it.
Perportedly it went to :
W.F Travers of Decatur, Illinois
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05-07-2021, 07:12 PM
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What happens if the owner of REG #3 comes forward and finds out there is a theft police report from the thirty's on that gun?
I would love to see the paperwork reunited with the gun
Could you share the specifics of the gun? bbl length etc?
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05-07-2021, 07:50 PM
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REG 3 is listed in the SWCA database but there is no information on it except finish is blue; no serial number, no barrel length, no sight configuration, etc.
Pictures of the registration certificate and sales receipt would be fantastic!
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05-07-2021, 07:58 PM
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I sent a PM to the OP and asked him to either post the pictures of the registration certificate and sales receipt in this thread or email them to me.
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05-08-2021, 01:36 PM
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To avoid confusion- The owner does not have the gun- just the paperwork- I'll post pictures asap- So if someone does happen to know where #3 is it would be great!
paperwork does show it was shipped to travers in Decatur Il.
Terry Jones
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05-08-2021, 02:17 PM
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So, if it was stolen in the 30s....is the current owner really the legitimate current owner?
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05-08-2021, 03:40 PM
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Probably... but he has no police report and is not looking to get the gun back- just get the paperwork to who ever has it now-
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05-08-2021, 03:45 PM
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paperwork for Reg Magnum # 3
Here you go!
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05-08-2021, 03:49 PM
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Receipt
receipt for registered magnum #3
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05-08-2021, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elinvar23
Here you go!
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Thank you Terry! That deserves better than a thumbnail. I’ll be posting the information from this certificate to the SWCA Pre-War .357 Magnum Database.
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05-08-2021, 03:52 PM
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That's the only one I've ever seen that is typed.
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05-08-2021, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elinvar23
Probably... but he has no police report and is not looking to get the gun back- just get the paperwork to who ever has it now-
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That paperwork would be worth a lot of money to me if I had #3.
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05-08-2021, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwill1911
That's the only one I've ever seen that is typed.
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I noticed that, too.
Being as this was the third one, perhaps they changed to a more artistic calligraphy style as the product line gained in popularity.
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05-08-2021, 04:09 PM
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Here's a legal conundrum.
If you were the present owner of #3, knowing that title to stolen personalty never passes, would you tell the Forum that you have it?
After 90 plus/minus years gone and who knows how many owners it is my unresearched legal opinion it still belongs to the Travers family.
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05-08-2021, 04:23 PM
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If I were a member of Traver’s family, I would find whoever has it now, and using the paperwork here and any police report, to recover the gun.
It can’t be impossible to find out who owns it now.
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05-08-2021, 04:24 PM
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Registered Magnum #3
Note the Rear Sight, I repeat Rear Sight, is “Patridge”; apparently nobody proof read the certificate for D. B. before he signed it!
Update: apparently “Patridge” was entered on some of the early certificates for the Rear sight to indicate a square notch. My faith in the 1935 era factory proof readers has been restored, and my knowledge has been enhanced.
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Last edited by lestert357; 05-09-2021 at 07:20 PM.
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05-08-2021, 04:26 PM
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Oh what tangled web we weave.........................
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05-08-2021, 04:38 PM
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Terry, what's wrong with "Patridge?" What am I missing? John, the fancy calligraphy started somewhere in the late 200s but all the others I've seen were hand written, not typed.
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05-08-2021, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwill1911
Terry, what's wrong with "Patridge?" What am I missing? John, the fancy calligraphy started somewhere in the late 200s but all the others I've seen were hand written, not typed.
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For Front Sight nothing, but for Rear Sight?
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05-08-2021, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestert357
For Front Sight nothing, but for Rear Sight?
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Oops! Gotcha
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05-08-2021, 05:04 PM
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Registered Magnum #3
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SWCA #3106 - SWHF #643
Last edited by Hoosier45; 05-08-2021 at 05:08 PM.
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05-08-2021, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier45
Not to steal the OPs thread, but coincidentally I have all the paperwork for #13... so if anyone in California has this gun let me know?? The research on the owner indicates he moved and later died in California.
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Please post pictures or scans if possible.
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05-08-2021, 05:08 PM
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What if Mr. Travers reported #3 stolen, had homeowners insurance, filed a claim and was paid for the revolver's value ? Seems like if he were still alive which is doubtful, he would no longer have a claim for ownership. And his family or heirs certainly wouldn't.
Good luck getting the police involved too, provided that the current owner was known.
And it isn't me in case anyone is wondering.
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05-08-2021, 05:14 PM
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See Terry there is more than one Patridge rear sight
Who knew?
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05-08-2021, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Rego
What if Mr. Travers reported #3 stolen, had homeowners insurance, filed a claim and was paid for the revolver's value ? Seems like if he were still alive which is doubtful, he would no longer have a claim for ownership. And his family or heirs certainly wouldn't.
Good luck getting the police involved too, provided that the current owner was known.
And it isn't me in case anyone is wondering.
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Guess if he got his gun back he'd have to reimburse the Insurance Co. ........$60
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05-08-2021, 05:22 PM
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#3 shows "$48" on the paperwork. Probably a month's pay at the height of the Great Depression. Joe
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05-08-2021, 06:58 PM
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Why test with 38spl ? Early ammo shortage?
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05-08-2021, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Rego
What if Mr. Travers reported #3 stolen, had homeowners insurance, filed a claim and was paid for the revolver's value ? Seems like if he were still alive which is doubtful, he would no longer have a claim for ownership. And his family or heirs certainly wouldn't.
Good luck getting the police involved too, provided that the current owner was known.
And it isn't me in case anyone is wondering.
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The insurance company would be the owner if they paid for it.
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05-08-2021, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elinvar23
Probably... but he has no police report and is not looking to get the gun back- just get the paperwork to who ever has it now-
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Maybe you can just send it to the Smith and Wesson Historical Society. You can contact DOC44 here.
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05-08-2021, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda
Here's a legal conundrum.
If you were the present owner of #3, knowing that title to stolen personalty never passes, would you tell the Forum that you have it?
After 90 plus/minus years gone and who knows how many owners it is my unresearched legal opinion it still belongs to the Travers family.
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Wouldn’t the current owner likely be a Bona Fide Purchaser for Value? Also, wouldn’t a replevin action have a statute of limitations of no more than 3 to 5 years?
Personal Property - Bona Fide Purchasers - Title, Seller, Buyer, and Value
- JRank Articles
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05-08-2021, 07:34 PM
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Seems to me the REG paperwork owner might find a friendly LEO to do a stolen search on the serial number?
Larry
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05-08-2021, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Rego
What if Mr. Travers reported #3 stolen, had homeowners insurance, filed a claim and was paid for the revolver's value ? Seems like if he were still alive which is doubtful, he would no longer have a claim for ownership. And his family or heirs certainly wouldn't.
Good luck getting the police involved too, provided that the current owner was known.
And it isn't me in case anyone is wondering.
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I think there is a very good chance there are no original Registered Magnum owners still alive. These were mostly men already into middle age in the mid-1930s. Even one who was 18 then would be at the century mark now.
I'm not in the law enforcement world but I imagine that, by now, this would be a civil affair if the gun were to appear at, say, an auction and the original owner's heirs caught wind of it. Contrary to popular belief (and here I step in as an insurance professional), owners CAN get back unique items even if they've been paid by the insurance company. Insurance companies don't want to be a repository of recovered stolen goods, they deal in hard currency.
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05-08-2021, 07:53 PM
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After all these years, what's left of the gun is probably in the bottom of Lake Michigan. Those were some rough times. And maybe a skeleton with a chain around it.
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05-08-2021, 08:37 PM
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stolen gun
The only time I got involved with a stolen gun was years ago. I bought a Texas Ranger commemorative in the box from a pawn shop. The firearm had been blessed by the local police dept as not stolen. I owned the revolver for 9 years and decided to sell it on consignment at a local gun shop. The gun shop was required to run the gun by the same local police dept. It came up as stolen. It had been stolen 10 years before I bought it. The original owners had been paid by insurance and didn't want it back. I offered reimburse the insurance adjuster and keep the revolver. No deal, the insurance adjuster said their policy was to sell it to only a FFL holder. The Pawn shop gave me back what I had paid originally since they had sold me a stolen gun.
SWCA 892
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05-08-2021, 08:42 PM
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I like to start at the beginning, so the first question I would have if I owned the gun would be was it actually stolen? No proof that I've read so far in this thread, just hearsay.
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05-08-2021, 11:11 PM
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There's a recent auction of serial #153 Colt 1911 USGI for $41k. The gun shipped to local FFL, numbers ran, it was reported stolen in 1983. I still don't know the final outcome of this, but the local sheriff dept showed up to collect the 1991. It was on the colt forum a few weeks ago. Sort on 3 digit 1911 to read about it.
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05-09-2021, 01:23 AM
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The interesting thing about # 3 is that it was the first one available for retail sale, with # 1 going to J Edgar Hoover and # 2 going to Phil Sharpe.
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05-09-2021, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Rego
What if Mr. Travers reported #3 stolen, had homeowners insurance, filed a claim and was paid for the revolver's value ? Seems like if he were still alive which is doubtful, he would no longer have a claim for ownership. And his family or heirs certainly wouldn't.
Good luck getting the police involved too, provided that the current owner was known.
And it isn't me in case anyone is wondering.
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Exactly what I was thinking and what a lot of people miss is that once an insurance company pays for a loss, the property is now owned by the insurance company should it ever be recovered. Now, insurance companies are usually happy to dispose of recovered items and will often deal with a previous owner or just sell at an auction. At my previous department, the property clerk was frequently offered great deals on recovered items.
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05-09-2021, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken158
Exactly what I was thinking and what a lot of people miss is that once an insurance company pays for a loss, the property is now owned by the insurance company should it ever be recovered. Now, insurance companies are usually happy to dispose of recovered items and will often deal with a previous owner or just sell at an auction. At my previous department, the property clerk was frequently offered great deals on recovered items.
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When I owned my gun store, we had a burglary in which about 50 firearms were stolen and much damage was done at their entry point and the display area...The insurance company (NRA recommended) paid off for the repairs and the merchandise at wholesale value, and several months later the case was solved, culprits were arrested and over half the guns were recovered...
The insurance company was not interested in ownership of the guns, many of which were damaged by the smash-and-grabbers, and all were returned to us by the Sheriff's Department...The insurance company also did not ask for reimbursement from the claim...We sold the guns as used with full disclosure... ...Ben
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05-09-2021, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck24
Why test with 38spl ? Early ammo shortage?
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You could have it test fired with many different ammunitions. It had nothing to do with a shortage. The list of ammunition that could be chambered in and test shot were; .38 Smith & Wesson Special Mid Range, .38 Smith & Wesson Special, .38 Smith & Wesson Special Super Speed, 38/44 Smith & Wesson Special and the Smith & Wesson ".357" Magnum.
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05-09-2021, 11:48 AM
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Chuck 24
I sent you a private message about a different subject
thanx
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05-09-2021, 12:06 PM
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OK, I hate to even bring this up but here goes. Something I do not even want to think about, but is a real possibility is that the gun no longer exists. The gun was stolen, that is a fact. The bad guy sells it to another bad guy or keeps it and one of them use it in a crime, robbery, etc. The gun gets seized by another police department and is (now this may be upsetting to some) melted down. It is heartbreaking to think of all the firearms that have been destroyed in some form or another by police departments and politicians! Let's hope that this might have a happy ending! I will now get off of my soap box.
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05-09-2021, 12:55 PM
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I would think that #3 in many aspects is one of the rarest of all R.M. for that very reason that is the first one offered or sold to the general public. I like the fact that Col. Wesson asked for some feedback, that probably happened all the time right? The current owner of #3 would be in a true conundrum, the letter is priceless and yet at the same time he/she would be opening up Pandora's Box with all of the legal buzz. I agree that #3 is most likely non existent or possibly thrown out of a moving vehicle or chopped down to a more useable length and Fitz'ed.
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05-09-2021, 01:41 PM
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I noticed that #13 had a Patridge rear sight, too. Maybe that's what S&W called the type of rear sight that normally went with a Patridge front sight. Square notch blade, I would guess.
Rob
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05-09-2021, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddydog
I noticed that #13 had a Patridge rear sight, too. Maybe that's what S&W called the type of rear sight that normally went with a Patridge front sight. Square notch blade, I would guess.
Rob
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I think you're right.
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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208
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05-09-2021, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan
You could have it test fired with many different ammunitions. It had nothing to do with a shortage. The list of ammunition that could be chambered in and test shot were; .38 Smith & Wesson Special Mid Range, .38 Smith & Wesson Special, .38 Smith & Wesson Special Super Speed, 38/44 Smith & Wesson Special and the Smith & Wesson ".357" Magnum.
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I agree. Looking at the data, it appears that about 10% of pre-war magnums were test fired with something less than .357 Magnum ammo.
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05-09-2021, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan
You could have it test fired with many different ammunitions. It had nothing to do with a shortage. The list of ammunition that could be chambered in and test shot were; .38 Smith & Wesson Special Mid Range, .38 Smith & Wesson Special, .38 Smith & Wesson Special Super Speed, 38/44 Smith & Wesson Special and the Smith & Wesson ".357" Magnum.
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I understand that, the ammo shortage was intended as a joke. Just curious why you would have a new gun with a new cartridge test fired with something else.
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05-09-2021, 03:24 PM
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As a former office who has recovered dozens of stolen firearms in my career I would like to share a few things. Of all the guns I have recovered only twice was an insurance company involved. Both of those involved multiple guns stolen from businesses. Several days after each theft we got a letter from the insurance company stating they had an interest in the theft. These letters were placed with the theft/burglary report so the property would go to the insurance company if recovered. Several of the guns were later recovered and the insurance companies were notified. Both insurance companies worked out deals with the gun shops where the items were stolen.
Most guns stolen from individuals are stolen from their residence or their vehicle. Many of these folks have no idea what their serial number is. A report is taken with no serial number and the gun is not entered with the National Crime Information Center.(NCIC) A few have the number and the guns are entered. If it's a recent purchase from an existing shop they can usually get your serial number for NCIC. If it's an older pre 1968 gun and you don't have the number it can't be entered. The oldest stolen gun I have recovered was reported stolen about 40 years ago. The owner was still alive (he was in his 80's) and I gave his gun back to him and removed it from NCIC. He jokingly asked me "What took you so long?" I told him I wasn't born when his gun was stolen. Some guns went to families of deceased owners after showing me a will or probate. Several of the owners couldn't be located or were deceased. These guns were removed from NCIC and placed in inventory for the next department auction. Three of them were given to me because they weren't wanted for whatever reason by the previous owner or relative. I would get a note from them telling why they no longer wanted the gun and give them a receipt and make a copy of it.
For two years back in the 40's the State of Mississippi required gun owners to register their handguns with the county sheriff. You could also register a long gun if you wanted to. The Sheriff I retired with still had these records in a large file cabinet. I got several serial numbers from these files. I spent many hours going through these files looking at the different weapons that had been "registered." One of the questions on the file sheet was "Where did you acquire this gun?" Most answers were hardware stores or Sears and Roebuck. Many answered this question as "war trophy." I found a 1911 Colt and a S&W top break that my Dad had registered. My brother has the 1911 and I have the top break. (it was originally owned by my grandfather and had been purchased back in the 1920's. There were many guns in this file that would be extremely rare and valuable today. I was able to locate a couple of hand ejectors but they didn't want to sell them.
Here's my take on RM #3. There is original proof of ownership, but no proof of theft. Without that proof of theft the original owner's descendants probably don't have a leg to stand on. Their were no computers back then and old records, especially one almost 90 years old, have more than likely been destroyed or lost. Being what it is, if the RM isn't in the bottom of a lake somewhere, and is in decent condition, it would be worth many thousands of dollars, maybe enough to get a lawyer involved. It would then become a legal question with an uncertain outcome and probably a nice attorney fee.
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