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Old 08-12-2010, 09:14 AM
nightshade2x nightshade2x is offline
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Default 1955 K-22 5 screw brings big bucks!

Check out this 1955 K-22 5 screw that closed yesterday on GB...

Smith & Wesson S&W K-22 Masterpiece 5 screw W/Box! : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

Be curious to hear your thoughts on this one.

Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:33 AM
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I think that's a lot of money. But I am not a serious collector. Look at the condition of that gun. Even the box is nearly perfect after 55 years. There were three bidders at over $1,300 and I assume they knew what they were doing.

There are folks out there with money. I am not one of them, but they are out there.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:36 AM
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IMHO, too much.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:37 AM
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The winner got a little carried away on the final bid. It's not a "transitional" with a 1955 ship date. Nice gun though.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:41 AM
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The guy writes up a great ad. He pushed a couple points, but he got paid for it.

In the antique watch trade, it's call HYPE, but it worked. Same gun with satin blue finish and gold box would do over $1000.


Charlie
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:46 AM
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My guess is, the gun filled a hole in the winners collection and he/she was willing to pay what was necessary to get it.

The way prices have escalated on K-22's the winning bid does not surprise me.

Don
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
The winner got a little carried away on the final bid. It's not a "transitional" with a 1955 ship date. Nice gun though.
I agree.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, there is someone out there who thinks that is what these are worth now. That is the problem with auctions. Ebay and other auction sites are being used to set the market price, whereas it is a price achieved by two people fighting over an item with the idea of having to win it...neither side will concede. Or, it could be shill bidding.

I actually was talking with one guy who had a shooter grade 29-3 that he wanted close to $3000 for it...I said $600 (ballpark) for the condition it was in. He said.."A .44 Magnum just sold for over $2k on Gunbroker and I will show you"....I said, "yep that 1950's .44 Mag with all the goodies did sell for that, you are correct, but you do not have that version." He could not see my point. I said, "Look, it would be like you asking $300,000 for a 1993 Corvette because a 1967 427 Corvette sold for that much...apples and oranges buddy"." I just gave up.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:20 AM
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Unfortunately, my budget only affords me to "accumulate" shooter grade examples, and even then not all the examples I desire. But, I can still fondle, clean, disassemble, tune, and possibly enhance those that I can afford. At least I get to watch the postings of the really neat stuff others buy. That's what is great about the Forum.
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:34 AM
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Curious thing about this gun is that it appears to be missing part
of the front sight. Look at this picture :



This is a Call bead front sight blade - standard on this model. There
should be a silver-colored bead on the back face of the blade. You
can see the indentation for securing the bead, but the bead seems to
be gone.

Mike Priwer
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer View Post
Curious thing about this gun is that it appears to be missing part
of the front sight. Look at this picture :



This is a Call bead front sight blade - standard on this model. There
should be a silver-colored bead on the back face of the blade. You
can see the indentation for securing the bead, but the bead seems to
be gone.

Mike Priwer
Mike,
You have sharper eyes than mine. I do see the indentation once you mentioned it.
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer View Post
Curious thing about this gun is that it appears to be missing part
of the front sight. Look at this picture :



This is a Call bead front sight blade - standard on this model. There
should be a silver-colored bead on the back face of the blade. You
can see the indentation for securing the bead, but the bead seems to
be gone.

Mike Priwer
Mike,
The Call bead was not standard on the Post war K-22. It HAD been standard on the pre war. I think the mark you see is simply lint or a ding.

I don't agree with a few of the seller's statements.
Serial numbering of all the parts continued into the very early 4 screw Masterpieces from my observations.

He is correct in stating that High polish was phased into the whole model line in the very late 5 screw period. We do know that high polished guns were sometimes built from the 40's onward.

I still contend that the term 'Transition' simply does not apply to any post war Masterpiece. There are many variants, but no transition took place.

I would feel more comfortable about the box if the serial number were shown.

Nice gun, but the high bids are surprising.
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:16 PM
mikepriwer mikepriwer is offline
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Lee

That is not lint. That is a circular indentation, to hold the bead.

I may, or may not, be wrong about what was standard for K-22's,
but I believe I am right about the rear face of that front sight blade.

Regards, Mike Priwer

PS: Check with Bob G, and ask him to look at it real close!
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:23 PM
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Very surprising indeed .... On the other hand, my July 1955 High Gloss K-22 with box just doubled in value

I also find the originality of the box questionable. In my limited knowledge, I have never seen a K series gun in a blue box that far back. That style were more from 1957 and on I believe?
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:30 PM
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I believe that's actually a "Grey" or as some call them "Blue-Grey" box such as illustrated below. What box did yours come in Stumper?









Have fun and be safe.
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:41 PM
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Mike and Lee,

I see the depression, but I thought the beads went deeper into the blade. I know there were white and red post front sights available at this time, and I wonder if the little depression was just a positioning aid for a small square piece of plastic that was once on the surface of the blade but is now gone.

The gun's final price seems steep to me by 50 percent. I'm a guy who has paid a thou for an early postwar K-22 because it was in good shape and had a prewar ejector knob, but I don't think I would have gone past $900 on this one. But differences of opinion are what make horse races.

Not that I bet, you understand.
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:59 PM
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The seller, "The Illusive 33", is known to many of us here. He used to frequent the big shows around western PA, but I haven't seen him/them in a while. Then again, I haven't been going to the local shows either. I know that at one time he and his father had a very impressive K22 collection; which perhaps they may be starting to liquidate. Just a guess on my part. Regardless; the Real King of Nice S&W's at Highly Inflated Prices, old George Wimer himself, is likely to be either very jealous or seriously salivating. -S2
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:33 PM
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EDIT-
I think it would be prudent to confirm such a question first, and then post that data ONLY if absolutely relavent to the discussion.
Lee J.
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Tom, is this the same individual? If not, I stand corrected.

SRT

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Old 08-12-2010, 02:17 PM
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***I believe that's actually a "Grey" or as some call them "Blue-Grey" box such as illustrated below. What box did yours come in Stumper?***

Yes, blue grey is more descriptive of the color of the first boxes of this type - some more grey than others. My 1955 gun came in a gold box. While there is always transitional overlap with all things S&W, I really think even late 1955 is too early for these boxes to be used. Maybe someone can confirm this possibility either way??
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:08 PM
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In the grand scheme of things it's just not that much money, and it's a very nice revolver for a guy who wanted it. Just be glad you don't collect double rifles...

CONGRATS AZ!

Last edited by SDH; 08-13-2010 at 01:36 AM. Reason: spelling!
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Old 08-12-2010, 07:09 PM
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Wow, what a lot of responses on the purchase of this 1955 k-22. I am the fellow that bought it, and realized that I was overpaying for it. However, I reasoned that it is something I have been looking for, for a while and this is the nicest one I have seen come up in a while. Also, it seems the market on these k-22's is quickly appreciating so I was afraid if I waited the next one to come along would be even more. When it came right down to it, I decided I would rather have the revolver than the dollars so I made the jump. I did talk with the seller and asked him additonal questions, so I felt reasonably comfortable that the box was original to the k-22 and that the revolver is in good shape. If I end up getting stung a little, I will simply chalk it up to an acceptable risk. I have lost more than this on bad stock tips.

I'll post back when I get the piece to let all know what my verdict is. Thanks for all those who are concerned about my mental state.
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Old 08-12-2010, 07:24 PM
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Arizona Guy, you have a great gun and an interesting box. You were willing to pay the price you did to get it, and that's the way it ought to be.

In the last couple of years I have "overpaid" for a lot of pieces that I simply wanted to own, and I am happy that I have them. I figure that I am not buying the item, but the pleasure of association with it. If I should later sell one at a loss, the delta I book on the in-and-out prices is the cost of that enjoyment. Over the period of ownership that will probably work out to a few bucks a month, or less than the price of movie or a cheap seat at a concert. The pleasure of having owned the gun will last a lot longer than the memory of any movie.

You did just fine. But you do owe us more photos and a range report when circumstances permit.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:07 PM
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Some place in my piles of debris I have a similar gun...kind of. Its a K205,xxx gun, and its living in a black box. A while back we had a discussion on those boxes. I believe SmithNut preferred to call them pastel boxes. The theory he was operating under (and probably correct) was they simply faded to black.

But just for balance, my ratty old K22 was refinished when I bought it, and I paid the full $2000 asking price just to get it. My only regret was that I didn't also by the M19 sitting beside it. Same price, too.

You don't pay too much, only too soon. In my situation, I was hunting down engraved and inlaid guns. Different rules apply.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:25 PM
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As a point of reference I have the gray or blue gray or whatever the color is called, box (I don't have the gun though) that you see on the bottom in this picture and it is numbered on the bottom K254661 in white grease pencil.

The gun in question that was sold on GB is SN K253713

The writing is identical on both ends.

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Old 08-12-2010, 09:51 PM
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If you want a particular piece in particular condition then whatever the market will bear is what you are going to have to fork over. Not a lot of very nice 5 screw k-22's on the market at this time.
Congrats on the purchase and if you are feeling a bit of remorse PM me;-)
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:04 PM
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I've been sort of sitting here just sipping on a hot, steaming cup of **** regarding the seller. Let me attempt some redemption by first (well actually, maybe second) welcoming AZ-Guy to the forum and saying that it sure looks like your'e getting a very nice K22; I hope that it's everything that the photos make it out to be.
Here's a link to some earlier discussion that we had on the "blue-grey" boxes:
Need help - K22 4 screw
Some interesting comments on pricing there, too. I wonder where we'll be with these things next year? -S2
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo2 View Post
Some interesting comments on pricing there, too. I wonder where we'll be with these things next year? -S2
Pricing comments are always interesting. There are times when I think the poster just has no clue. Other times I think maybe they've just been to a gunshow. One thing you can be sure of, if the price quotes are a year or more old, they're worthless. Followed closely by the price estimates of someone who hasn't actually seen similar guns change hands in the last month or two! Prices are also regional. There are places where certain guns are just unavailable. Just because some old buzzard thinks the price is too high because he bought the same model back in the 1970s is of no value.

Its no revelation that guns with boxes and paperwork are worth (or at least bring) a significant premium over the price of the parts separate.

The guns we've been discussing are very well made. Masterpieces, if you wish. With our economy in flux, many people are dumping their nickels and dimes into things that hold their value. Its no surprise the K22s are going up in value. Sometimes dramatically.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:47 PM
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While the sales price might seem a bit high, when you compare this one to a new model 17 "classic" I think the price is not to bad overall I think the prices of the 1950's and 60's Smiths are not to bad (with a few exceptions of course) when you compare them to what is sold as new these days.

Troy
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
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I've been sort of sitting here just sipping on a hot, steaming cup of **** regarding the seller.
Yup, me too.....
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:14 AM
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My pre-19 box (1956) is the same color with the same S&W font.
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Old 08-24-2010, 03:05 PM
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A quick followup now that I have received the revolver. It is in very nice shape. The serial No. is in white grease pencil on the bottom of the box. The sight post looks perfect to me. There is no lint nor ding. There is an indentation, but it is not deep enough to have held any type of bead for any length of time, so in my opinion there was not ever any bead there. I inquired of one other 1955 k-22 owner and he indicated there was no bead on his collectible-quality k-22 either.

I will try to get pics up, but be patient with me. I am not a photographer.
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Old 08-24-2010, 04:16 PM
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I don't think that you overpaid at all. You paid a price that needed to be paid if you wanted to own that gun. I do give Mr's Grote a lot of credit for writing a very compelling story about this K 22. Although the words "transitional model" are used quite frequently regarding the pre war to post war changes, I believe that the Seller in this case was referring to the changes that occured between 5 screw and 4 screw models. Whether or not all of those claims are accurate, (I will leave that to those with greater knowledge than me) if correct, then I certainly see an added value for both gun and box.

I personally own a pre model 14, K 38 Heavy Masterpiece that is the 1951 USRA Trophy gun and is so inscribed. While it is merely a .38 special revolver with a 6" barrel of which thousands were made, many in the collector community value these guns and I have personally seen one from a different year sell for over $5,000. So when it comes to collecting and paying for things, I really feel that it is up to the buyer and what the item is worth to them.
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Old 08-24-2010, 04:40 PM
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We are not questioning the quest for the elusive K-22 in great condition. Believe me I have plunked down a load of Bens's for my K-32's. They are worth it when I see the smiles on my grand kids faces after shooting a box of shells and then trying to count the holes in the black. I got them raising up right, no tupperware in my house!! Post some pictures for us. GB is blocked by the ARMY.
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Old 08-24-2010, 04:56 PM
K.R._Rabbit K.R._Rabbit is offline
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When I started collecting, all I could afford was what my friends and I called "beaters". As I get older, I upgrade but let me tell you, I have had some fun! I have shot all of my collection and I find that even the beaters go up in value. Anyone who is in a position to buy such a nice gun is blessed and I believe you are really lucky. I hope you enjoy your gun, what a neat piece to pass on to your kids!
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:36 AM
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My apologies for the comment about "overpaying". The pot calling the kettle black for my part, on several occasions...
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:02 PM
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Way back in the beginning of this thread I called the dark blue/grey box that this gun came in into question. Even stated that my July 1955 K-22 came in a gold box. Well.... after seeing this thread opened again I just went into the closet and "actually looked" for the box for my gun and low and behold K-22 with SN K241317 was shipped in the same blue/grey box as this one. Went a step further and found another K-22 box of this color in my other box collection with SN K240103 on it......
**** Foot firmly implanted in the mouth****
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:15 PM
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Stumper, that's great! More confirmation that these were the correct boxes.

Also I have 241348 only 31 serial numbers apart!

Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:34 PM
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I've bought cars -- it's depreciation.

Bought S&W stock -- it's "market fluctuations".

Bought "expensive" S&W revolvers -- wait three years you'll get even more money for it.

Now which purchase was a better deal?

Congratulations on getting the S&W you wanted!!
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:06 PM
AZ S&W Guy AZ S&W Guy is offline
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Thanks for the additional updates and clarifications. Just as an aside, I did not buy this piece for any appreciation potential. In fact, I still have every gun I have purchased. I kind of become attached to them, so this piece is definitely off the market. I will give it to one of my kids who is like I am, so with this gun being 54 years old now, I would venture to guess that it will be another 54 years at least before it comes back on the market.
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ S&W Guy View Post
Thanks for the additional updates and clarifications. Just as an aside, I did not buy this piece for any appreciation potential. In fact, I still have every gun I have purchased. I kind of become attached to them, so this piece is definitely off the market. I will give it to one of my kids who is like I am, so with this gun being 54 years old now, I would venture to guess that it will be another 54 years at least before it comes back on the market.
Keeping every gun you've owned is admirable. Many here love K-22's and want more, I know I do. Seeing one for $1400 might mean the cost of our passion just went higher. Sort of like sticker shock many years ago when I saw the first 1/2 ton truck on a lot over $20, 000.00. Now I wish I could have paid 20K for my Ford super duty diesel.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:06 AM
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Congratulations AZ S&W Guy on your purchase. Almost everyone commenting acknowledges that Quality, Condition, Scarcity, and Popularity are primary components of value that affect sale prices, including firearms. What has not always been recognized is that "Pride of Ownership" is far more important than many might imagine. It is apparent to me that much of what motivates many S&W collectors is the pride of ownership of a piece of history that is expressed with high quality workmanship, often in very short supply, and that has remained popular with much of the firearm community for quite a long time. Whether it is a shooter or a safe queen, she's likely the pride and joy of the owner; and they often want to preserve this for their progeny as a legacy worth cherishing.
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Old 08-26-2010, 08:48 AM
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AZ S&W Guy you bought a beautiful revolver in wonderful condition for your collection that you really wanted and to me that's what it's all about. I have over paid for some in my collection and on others I got some at well below market value. The guns we buy are for us only and we pay what we think is fair to us for the gun based on availably and condition.
I think it's also like some other people have said and that is that you bought something built in an era when workmanship meant something and at a quality level not realized anymore. The guns made back then were hand built by real craftsman who took pride in their work.

Congratulations on the purchase.
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