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  #1  
Old 08-13-2010, 09:50 PM
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Default 32 auto in a 32 Long CTG revolver - ok?

I just picked up a .32 Hand Ejector (2nd Model?) at a Pawn Shop in Tampa Florida while on vacation. I think it is from the 20's SN# 189440 it is in about 20% condition and there are a few pits in the barrel.
I definitely have the S&W disease, I was buy a top break Lemon Squeezer for a shadow box I am building from one of the S&W tin signs and this was sitting there calling to me.
They wanted $199 and we negotiated down to $150.

The grips number to the gun and have no missing pieces.
I just couldn't resist.

MY QUESTION IS: is it ok to shoot .32 auto in this revolver? The pawn shop guy said 32 long and short and in a dire emergency 32 auto, but not often.

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Old 08-13-2010, 10:02 PM
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Officially, no, you should only shoot the proper caliber cartridges in any firearm.

HOWEVER, I've shot .32 ACPs in a similar S&W a number of times. Never had any problems.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:12 PM
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Would .32 auto even headspace correctly? I haven't heard of .32 moonclips, and unless the cases are actually semi-rimmed they'd just sink into the charge holes.

In addition, the .32 ACP bullets have a slightly smaller diameter and would surely offer reduced accuracy. I don't know about comparative pressures.

I would just stick with the rimmed ammunition.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:15 PM
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Gil, that means the rimless cartridges do headspace correctly in revolvers? I don't own a .32 auto or have any .32 ACP ammo right now, or I'd check it out for myself.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:17 PM
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32 acp is semi-rimmed so they should work.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:18 PM
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"...unless the cases are actually semi-rimmed..."

Yes, they are. The cartridge is loaded to low pressures, due to the many weak semiautos chambered for it since the beginning of the 20th century.

Mine shot to minute of coke can at 15 yrads, loaded with .32 ACPs.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:19 PM
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The .32 ACP is indeed a semi-rimless round. I too have seen it fired in revolvers. It might be OK in a modern solid frame gun but I would NEVER try it an old break-top.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:22 PM
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The .32 ACP is actually semi-rimmed. And yes, the semi-rim will support the cartridge enough to reliably fire.

Case head-to-recoil shield clearance ("headspace") is not optimal, but the S&W revolver design has enough firing pin protrusion to reliably fire.

The .32 ACP chamber pressures are safe in an S&W swing-out revolver, but this practice is not recommended in a breaktop design.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:34 PM
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Thank you all! I got good information out of somebody else's question.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:42 PM
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Yes. While not 'technically' correct, .32 ACP is semi-rimmed and will work just fine for plinking or in a pinch.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:14 AM
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Sort of like shooting 38 Supers in a 357 Magnum...
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
Officially, no, you should only shoot the proper caliber cartridges in any firearm.
You might be interested in S&Ws list of acceptable cartridges for .32 S&W Long revolvers. From the box lid of my 1961 Model 16:

"Ammunition and Guarantee.--This gun is chambered for use with the following cartridges: 32 Smith & Wesson, 32 Smith & Wesson Long, 32 S&W Mid-Range, 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, and 32 Colt New Police..........."

This is copied literally, including punctuation and abbreviations.

The surprising ones are the .32 Long & Short Colt which are significantly smaller in diameter than any of the other listed cartridges. The .32 ACP is little more than a semi-rimmed version of the .32 S&W.

So, even though most of us would consider .32 Short & Long Colt as im-proper cartridges in a .32 S&W Long due to the case diameter difference, "Officially" they are acceptable.

It should be noted that there is more difference in case diameter between the .32 Long Colt and .32 S&W Long than there is between .32 S&W Long and .32-20, or .22 Long Rifle and .22 WMR or .22 WRF that everyone seems to think will invariably result in split cases (they won't!).

Last edited by Alk8944; 08-14-2010 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:47 PM
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Another problem with .32ACP in a .32 S&W top-break in the the old top breaks were intended for lead bullets. The jacketed .32ACP wil not do any favors to the barrel and will probably also raise pressures .
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:02 PM
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"It should be noted that there is more difference in case diameter between the .32 Long Colt and .32 S&W Long than there is between .32 S&W Long and .32-20,"

Back in my badge totin' days, I investigated several crimes, including a murder, where the weapon used was a .32-20 revolver loaded with .32 Long cartridges.

May have been the wrong ammo, but dead is dead.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:43 PM
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I've fired .32 ACP in a .32 S&W Long revolver with decent results and no problems.



"It should be noted that there is more difference in case diameter between the .32 Long Colt and .32 S&W Long than there is between .32 S&W Long and .32-20..."


Case mouth perhaps, but the .32-20 is notably different otherwise, being a tapered case with a neck.

I once read years ago that a .32 S&W Long could be fired in a .32-20 revolver in a pinch so tried that combination. They would fire but made ugly misshaped cases with occasional splits.

Here's a .32 S&W Long flanked by a .32 Short Colt and a .32 Long Colt.



I have a Colt New Pocket in .32 Long Colt. When I got home from the gun show with it I figured on firing ammo from supplies of .32 S&W Long in it but was wrong about that. The .32 S&W Long is just a hair's breath larger in diameter and won't chamber.

The .32 Short and Long Colt ammunition gives a decent performance in a .32 S&W Long chambered revolver.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:01 AM
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Default Old guns

Just remember to never fire a .32 ACP in the old top breaks. The old guns top out at around 9000 PSI while the .32 ACP is closer to 15,000 psi. A modern .32 can safely fire the acp. I have a 31-1 which I have fired the acp rounds through without a problem, except for the lower POI due to the lighter bullet.

Bruce
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:15 AM
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Nice to know .32acp can do in a pinch as .32 S&W is just about impossible to find on any dealer shelves and when you do around here it's well over $30 a box. .32 Longs aren't much better--at SOME gunshows I've been able to find .32 S&W and .32 Longs for under $20 a box of 50. I kept the casings so I can reload if needed.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
"It should be noted that there is more difference in case diameter between the .32 Long Colt and .32 S&W Long than there is between .32 S&W Long and .32-20..."

Case mouth perhaps, but the .32-20 is notably different otherwise, being a tapered case with a neck.
What I said is exactly what I meant, meaning the base diameter. I can't find a nominal base diameter for .32 Long Colt in any of my manuals (they only date to mid-1950s), but the cartridges I have measure .313-.316. .32 S&WL base dia. is .337, a difference of ca. .021. .32-20 base dia. is .353, only .016 larger at the base than .32 S&WL. The .32-20 neck is only slightly larger than the .32 Long Colt case, ca. .322, about .015 smaller than .32 S&WL. In other words, there is roughly .006 more difference between .32 LC and .32 S&WL than between .32 S&WL and .32-20. What makes .32-20 a bottle-neck cartridge is difference between the the smaller neck and the slightly larger base, not the larger base! Don't argue unless you are prepared to learn.

To add to the question, .32 ACP can be shot in a .32-20 too! True, it won't headspace on the rim which is approximately the same diameter as the .32-20 base, but if you cock the gun while pointed up and lower the muzzle carefully they will fire. One of the gun-rag wags wrote this once years ago and I just had to know. Before anyone starts to say it won't work, it does! Definitely only something to be done if absolutely necessary, but it will work and is safe with a low pressure cartridge.

Last edited by Alk8944; 08-15-2010 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:46 PM
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"What I said is exactly what I meant...Don't argue unless you are prepared to learn."

As you say.
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:55 PM
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My daughter adopted my 4" 31-1 a few years ago because it fits her hands well and 32 Longs are fun to shoot. However the revolver spends it's resting time loaded with 32 ACP Winchester Silver Tip hollowpoints. If someone would make a comparable 32 Long load I'd buy them but until they do the 32 acp works fine.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:38 PM
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Hi everyone, I am new to this site and I have to say that I really enjoy it so far. The info on the 32 acp for my early 50's he was a godsend!!! I love this old gun but it is very hard to find ammo here and it often is 30 bucks a box if you can find it. I went out and got me a box of acp and it was just fine! it did shoot a bit low but that can happen with any new ammo. Single or double works just fine and there are so many different loads for the acp. hardly any recoil either so my wife sure does enjoy it to. thanks again for the info
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:28 PM
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I try to read and usually enjoy the 32 caliber threads. But in all honesty, its a black hole in my knowledge base. I have a few of them and just picked up another really good condition and high number 32-20.

I'm guessing my lack of knowledge of 32s came from the fact that I was poor. OK, I felt poor anyhow. I was under a lot of bad impressions in my youth. Family history said Dad's 32 Regulation Police was sold to him by the chief of police in the nearby town back in 1925, when Dad was 14. He ran a trap line in the creek out back and didn't have a suitable weapon to carry to kill the critters. According to family lore, they had a gun. It was the family 45-70 Springfield (now in my grandson's ownership). They bought it and paid about as much for the box of 20 500 grain military shells as they paid for the rifle. But then they discovered it would kill a beef or pig just as well with a .410 shotgun shell, so they used that and saved the black powder rounds for more critical stuff. I inherited one of those rounds, but my son seems to have lost it.

So anyway, Dad needed a carry gun and the chief ponied up for the cash. These days they'd bury them both under the jail for such a transaction. Back then it wasn't even worthy of mention. He knew what my Dad needed it for, had known the family for decades. Probably a better instant check than what goes for it today.

Dad kept the gun and when I got to about 12 or so we started shooting a pellet gun down in the basement. We built a series of bullet traps, some better than others. Back to poverty. We discovered we could catch the 22 cal pellets in old couch cushions and if you fished them out pretty regularly, they wouldn't be damaged until another connected and deformed them. It allowed us to shoot for nearly nothing.

But then one day Dad smuggled down his Regulation Police. He didn't dare fire factory loads because it might set my anti-gun mother off. So we experimented (yes, with live ammo). He got some used cases he had. He never threw anything away. We deprimed them with a ground down nail and then reseated primers against a block of hardwood. Primers alone weren't very loud. But then we started loading up the cases with powder. We settled upon 1 grain of bullseye. It also was pretty economical because a pound held 7000 grains and I think back then the price on the can was $2.25. Our bullets were just 0 Buckshot. It was actually something we bought from a store. A sack of it also cost a few bucks and was 25# of fun. The problem we had was we only had about 10 empties we had to just keep on loading. One thing about that kind of shooting, you tried to make every shot count.

Something else I discovered was that I could buy gelatiin capsules up at the drug store. If you got the right size, and I can't recall it now, they would just fit the bore of my 22 pellet pistol. The best part of that was they didn't have any mass to speak of so they could obliterate a fly, but only leave a tiny grease spot where the fly vanished. And they didn't shoot very straight. That could be solved by just a drop of wax, and you could only use the bottom of the capsule. If you had any big bugs around, they'd work on them too. Think Cicadas. Interesting that my grandson discovered that the Airsoft guns will kill them with a good shot. My advantage was the capsule shattered and then the pieces were water gone with the first rain.

Last December we were downstate at the gunshow just before Christmas. A guy was pedaling an old Colt. My buddy Joe dated it as before 1923 because of the grips. We both thought it was 32 long. As soon as we couldn't chamber a 32 S&W round he knew it was 32 Colt long. I'd never even heard of such nonsense, but of course he was right. I hate it when that happens. It sent me to the books and old manuals. It seems the 32 Colt is .299 diameter. I believe you guys when you say it works with good results in a 32 S&W. But that's a lot of space between the bullets and the rifling.

And I also learned to not trust the ammo sellers. Those guys are all crooks! Before you buy a box of 32 Colt ammo, open it and look at the headstamps. A lot of it is repackaged 32 S&W. We could give them the benefit of the doubt and just figure they were stupid like me. I did find one box almost full for about $20. I'm guessing it came from the 1930s.

And just like 32 S&Ws, there isn't much difference between the shorts and the longs as far as velocity or energy goes. They're so close that I bet if somebody ran them over a chronograph they'd find shot to shot differences greater than that between the rounds.
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:42 PM
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Had a Colt Cobra in .32 S&W and foolishly sold same. I shot .32 acp rounds in it with no issues.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:34 PM
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This is slightly off the thread, but you can shoot .32acps just fine in S&W Model .35 Auto pistols. The bore is .32 in the .35 autos, and the rounds feed perfectly through the .35 magazine. When S&W replaced the .35 auto with their .32 auto, they used the same barrels. Ed.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:17 AM
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I have a 30-1 Nickel. You can buy 32 S&W long for well under $20 per box of 50 at Ammo to go and don't even have to pay the tax unless your in TX. Freight is $10 for 4 boxes to me. Check the site out for those old obscure ctgs.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:06 AM
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Interesting thread. . I pulled my early I-frame out and tried 32 acp and 32 long colt. . Both fit perfectly in the cylinder. . All the ammo is very old. . The 32 long colt states on the front all the caliber lingo and guns its good for and says "not for 32 S&W" ??

I measured the bullets tight to the brass and:

- 32 S&W short was the smallest dia. at .305
- 32 acp .306
- 32 long colt .308

The 32 S&W short and 32 long colt are lead bullets while the 32 acp are copper jacket.

Rod
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:37 AM
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For relatively "high performance" in my I-frame 32s I default to the "factory loaded" Georgia Arms 32 S&W Long with a 95 gr. jacketed hollow point. I don't feed any of them a steady diet of this load, but that's what stays in my carry gun and is available at bedside as well. For those outside of the mid-Atlantic Region, Georgia Arms is a company that specializes in ammo and reloading supplies, and also carries a line of their own "factory-type reloads" which in many cases are simply their own loadings using all new components. Their 327 Fed Mags are an affordable way to shoot the caliber and accumulate once fired brass to reload, and lately the same can be said of their 32 S&W Long ammo. I have no financial connection with them, but am a longtime satisfied customer. HTH!

Froggie

PS Oh yeah, they have 32 ACP sometimes, but when I am buying ammo anyway and there is no significant price (or performance) differential, it makes more sense to go with the "proper" round.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:54 PM
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Hiya Charlie,

Is what you have 95gr? Last I bought were 85gr listed at 850FPS.

During the shortages they sold some with a 100gr at a supposed 825 but the darn things feel like a 148gr wadcutter in an airweight .38Spec. Now I'm husbanding those for carry in the Dick Special, tho I shall clock a few if I get the ambition to dig out the Oehler.



Regards,

Pat

PS: shooting any long guns lately?
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:24 AM
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Keep in mind that Euro 7.65mm ammo may be loaded hotter than domestic .32 auto.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:57 AM
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Just got another lesson in firearms here.
Thanks to all who responded to the OP. TACC1
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraco View Post
Interesting thread. . I pulled my early I-frame out and tried 32 acp and 32 long colt. . Both fit perfectly in the cylinder. . All the ammo is very old. . The 32 long colt states on the front all the caliber lingo and guns its good for and says "not for 32 S&W" ??

Rod
Rod,
To answer your question, Smith made DA Top Break and New Departure "hammerless" (lemon squeezers) chambered for 32 S&W centerfire and those are the models referred to above as not suitable for 32 Long Colt but you wouldn't be able to chamber Longs in 32 S&W guns anyway.
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:25 AM
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I just ran a box of .32 ACP through my Model 31-2. Less than stellar accuracy but no problems.
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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 Thread, 32 auto in a 32 Long CTG revolver - ok? in Smith & Wesson Revolvers; I just picked up a .32 Hand Ejector (2nd Model?) at a Pawn Shop in Tampa Florida while on vacation. ...
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