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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 09-20-2010, 03:55 AM
Beaver Beaver is offline
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Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss?  
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Question Pre-War Kit Guns? What's the fuss?

Would those whose knowledge of all things S&W greatly exceeds mine, please explain why these guns are so cool and expensive? I see three or four for sale on the various gun auction sites, they are pretty pricey, they don't seem to sell for the prices asked, and they are not THAT good looking. Now, I'm all over kit guns as I own a 63 and a 34 and will probably buy every one I find locally. I see why they are so much fun, easy to carry, so cool to shoot and so logical for young/inexperienced shooters.

So, the final question is: Why are the old ones so ubercool, and why do they cost so much? Pictures please. Help the uninformed. A lively discussion is appreciated. Later, Beaver
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:55 AM
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Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss?  
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I think the short answer is that "there ain't that many of'em out there". I love kit guns too and will see a whole slew off them before I ever see an early pre war one.

Roger
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:10 AM
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Prewar KGs are a scarce commodity to start with, and their configuration shows almost perfect proportion for their size (or at least the round butt version does; the ones with square butt or extension stocks can look pretty unbalanced and ungainly). I think the tapered barrel has a lot to do with it. The Model of 1953 KGs are quite similar but just don't have the same visual appeal to my eyes. Once I saw my first prewar KG, all the subsequent small-frame adjustable sight .22s just looked slightly out of proportion, even unfinished.

Consider the math: prewar KGs were in the company's production line-up for only four years before WW2 interrupted commercial production. In that time, the serial number range that included the Kit Gun increased by only 6000 -- from (round numbers) 529500 to 535500. That count includes not only all the Kit Guns manufactured, but all of the tail end production of the .22/32 Target Revolver (originally known as the Bekeart and at other times the .22/32 Heavy Frame Target or the .22/32 Hand Ejector), and continuing production of the .32 Hand Ejectors, including the square butt Regulation Police variant. I don't know the production breakdown for these separate models, but I don't see how the Kit Guns could have accounted for more than 1500-2000 units of the total at the outside. I actually think the production may not have exceeded 1200, and I have heard S&W collectors who have been in this game far longer than I have suggest that there may have been no more than 1000 of them. Compare that count to the count for other desirable models: Triple Locks (about 20,000 total), Registered Magnums (5000+), the Prewar .38/44 revolvers (11,000 Heavy Duty, about 5000 Outdoorsman). You can see why the Kit Guns might be hard to find and expensive when they turn up.

There is one artificial component holding up the asking prices (but not the selling prices) of these revolvers; the Blue Book, for reasons that I have never completely understood, thinks that Prewar KGs in the best condition may be worth $7000 or more; you will see that figure cited from time to time in Gunbroker ads for guns that never move even though they are priced at one half or even one third that level. I wonder what the market knows that the Blue Book doesn't? There are recorded KG sales above $4000, but I believe these were flukes in an overheated market about three or four years ago. I believe the same guns later traded hands at lower prices.

I bought my first prewar KG about 18 months ago. At that time the prices had already started to slide. The first gun I bought had gone unsold for months at $3000 and had been marked down about 20%. I took it at that price, though in retrospect I probably could have shaved another $300-400 off the price. The next one was similarly priced high condition gun, but with a box. A few months ago I acquired a 90-95% gun for less than $1500.

I love these little guns; I have deferred buying other uncommon models in order to keep funds available in case one of these shows up at a reasonable price. These days I think reasonable means $1500-1800 for a 90-95% gun, and $2000-2400 for a better one with a box. Almost all listed KGs that I know about come with prices or minimum bids that exceed those values. And I think that is why they are still listed, though months have passed since they were first made available.

A thread like this needs a picture, so here's a KG from 1938.

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Last edited by DCWilson; 09-20-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:25 AM
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Here's another one from 1938. I call it my pimp gun, it's one of very few that I own with Factory Pearl grips.
H. M. Pope
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File Type: jpg S&W 22-32 Pre-War Kit Gun Blue & Pearl.JPG (17.1 KB, 115 views)
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWilson View Post
I think the tapered barrel has a lot to do with it. The Model of 1953 KGs are quite similar but just don't have the same visual appeal to my eyes. Once I saw my first prewar KG, all the subsequent small-frame adjustable sight .22s just looked slightly out of proportion, even unfinished.

I believe you are correct about the look of the prewar KGs. The 1953s have the rib and the ramp front sight on a thick barrel which give it a much different profile, also the rear sight on the 53 KGs are larger and break up the smooth lines of the rear of the frame. And the large egg shaped trigger guard does not balance as well. The 53 KG is as close as I will ever come to an original, unless I stumble across someone who does not know what they have.

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Old 09-22-2010, 07:02 PM
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I think it's the diamond magnas on the small frame. I always stop and leer at a pre-war gun with diamonds. Not sure why. They are so easy to ding, if you find a really clean pair...well, the shoes make the man I guess.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:58 PM
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I agree with David, they are just cool! I have one I shoot alot that I actually made from a long barrel heavy frame target gun. I got the gun for $250 with a bulged barrel and a used but great shape 4 inch barrel from GB for about $100. Put them together and have a great little shooter that I dont have to worry about. Unlike David though I prefer the rebated square butt style grips on my I frames. I had an extra set of these grips also in used shape, I cut the wood back to fit on the non rebated frame of my heavy target now 4 inch gun, alls good for me now:~) Top gun in pic below.
Matt

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Old 09-22-2010, 08:35 PM
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Here's a fairly uncommon one--a "transitional" Kit Gun, pre-war configuration but shipped in 1954!



Tim
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:14 AM
Beaver Beaver is offline
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Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss? Pre-War Kit Guns?  What's the fuss?  
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Thank you all for the excellent history/production lesson.
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bekeart, commercial, ejector, hand ejector, kit gun, outdoorsman, prewar, round butt


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