The .32-20 Hand Ejector Thread

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Plain Old Dave

The OP is a much less robust revolver, though. ..

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You have to be kidding. The OP is heavier and more robust, and the various timing problems often attributed to DA Colts simply do not exist given any reasonable care. Granted. the lockwork is somewhat more complex than S&Ws, and repairs require more skill to perform, but are very seldom needed.

[don 65]

i use to think i have a low serial number but it is has 4 digit

[Plain Old Dave]

Originally Posted by DWalt

You have to be kidding. The OP is heavier and more robust, and the various timing problems often attributed to DA Colts simply do not exist given any reasonable care. Granted. the lockwork is somewhat more complex than S&Ws, and repairs require more skill to perform, but are very seldom needed.

Might be the Police Positive I'm thinking about. Heard about one of them that the crane got sprung on from shooting old HV .32-20 through. They shot it once, and couldn't get the hammer to come back. In a K frame, you'd crack the forcing cone or bulge the cylinder first. A friend of mine has a 6" nickel RB with a cracked cone...

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[finloq]

Has anybody fired Georgia Arms 32-20?
I was getting mediocre accuracy and some key holing at 10 yards. My barrel appears to be in good condition with good lands and grooves (I have not slugged the bore yet) but swallows the same rounds in the standard bullet test. I measured the bullet diameter with a digital caliper and came up with a diameter of .3085? What?



"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

[DWalt]

The standard bore diameter of the .32-20 is 0.313"-0.314". Smaller bullets than that will not engage the rifling properly. I think the new T-C Contender single shot pistols in .32-20 have a 0.308 bore.

[finloq]

Yep. If only I could find another manufacturer in stock...anywhere.



"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

[DWalt]

Anyone planning to shoot a .32-20 revolver very much should seriously consider taking up reloading. It eliminates the logistics problems of obtaining factory ammunition. .32-20 cast lead bullets are readily available from places like the Missouri Bullet Company. There is no need to use jacketed bullets, but they are also available, such as those made for the .32 H&R Magnum and the .327 Federal.

[finloq]

I just acquired a collection of (I presume) 50's-60's RNFP. The question is: is this HV or no?



"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"ImageUploadedByTapatalk1424483022.543929.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1424483030.998342.jpg

[DWalt]

Probably not. I believe the HV ammo had 80 grain jacketed hollow point bullets, and usually had something on the headstamp identifying that it was high velocity. At one time I had some .32-20 rounds with jacketed exposed lead bullets (not hollow pointed) which were not HV. I'll check information in some of the old ammo catalogs.
___________________________________
I checked a variety of both pre-war and post-war Remington, Winchester, and Western ammunition catalogs. In all cases, the .32-20 HV loads listed had 80 grain jacketed hollow point bullets (which Remington describes as "Mushroom" and W-W called Open Point Expanding). You might want to pull a bullet or two and weigh it - if it's more than 80 grains, it's not HV.

[finloq]

These guys are all RNFP:

[DWalt]

See #310. I'd say yours are not HV.

[finloq]

Thanks for the research, DW

[spencerhut]

Have had this for some time. It's rare for me as I've never shot it and I shoot just about everything I have. It's 100% correct down to the grips, worn and tattered as they may be. It came with three boxes of Winchester .32-20 ammo that I know I still have somewhere. Cylinder and bore are near perfect as you could hope for. The insides *looked* untouched when I cleaned it up and preserved it long ago. My 625/627's get torn down seasonally after I switch over to my auto for the competition shooting I do, so the thought of a gun this old never having been apart is odd to me.
Almost forgot, it has some sort of pinned on brass front sight. I think I've been inspired to find the ammo and shoot it since the rest of you seem to be shooting yours.

[finloq]

I think it's beautiful. I love the long barrel.



"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

[DWalt]

It's unusual to see checkered grips worn almost smooth like yours. Have you checked to see if the same serial number is penciled on the back of the right grip panel? The SN is very high in the range, as the last S&W .32-20 was in the 144000 SN range. Production stopped in around 1929-30 but S&W continued to catalog them for sale until 1940. Any .32-20 sold between approximately 1930 to 1940 was either from inventory or assembled from earlier components. Yours is likely to have been shipped during the later 1920s due to the 1920s style grips and mushroom extractor rod knob.

Your front sight is not typical, and it's possible it could be one of the rare "half-target" variations, although I have not heard of one of those in .32-20. It may be worth the price of a factory letter ($50) to find out if shipped with a target front sight. However, a letter may or may not reveal that. You may also wish to add a better close-up picture of the front sight alone to see if anyone else can identify it.

Ammunition availability is a problem. It is still factory loaded, but not widely distributed, and expensive. It's nearly always a special order or buy off the internet item. Most who shoot .32-20 rifles or revolvers very much will reload to avoid the ammunition hassle.

"...the thought of a gun this old never having been apart is odd to me." I believe that is fairly common to find unopened revolvers. Many owners will never take a screwdriver to their revolvers as long as it continues working. I have seen some that are so crudded up inside from dried oil and dirt that it's certain they have never been opened and cleaned internally.

[spencerhut]

Found the ammo, three boxes of 50 Winchesters.
The grips are clearly numbered to the gun in pencil. Barrel, side plate, star & cylinder all match.
I'll need to pick up another set of K-Frame grips for in order to shoot it. It's uncomfortable to even hold it with the original grips.
Front sight:


Front sight looks like an amateur gunsmith job to me.

[DWalt]

Post some pictures of the boxes (all sides) if possible. Everyone loves old ammunition boxes, and I may be able to date them approximately. Lot numbers would help.

Someone who knows more about target front sights should be along shortly to give an informed opinion, which I cannot. S&W provided a fairly large number of target front sight blade options.

[spencerhut]

Shot, shoots just fine. Little to no recoil, plenty accurate enough.

[rburg]

If its a sweet shooter, its a 32-20.

[Muley Gil]

That's a Shread front sight. I had a .32-20 target that had one.

[Alk8944]

That's SHEARD.

[Alk8944]

Originally Posted by finloq

I just acquired a collection of (I presume) 50's-60's RNFP. The question is: is this HV or no?



"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"Attachment 185933Attachment 185934

This is at least the second time I have posted this picture in this thread! This is a Hi-Speed 80 gr OPE cartridge, anything with any other bullet shape is not a Hi-Speed cartridge.

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by Alk8944

That's SHEARD.

You're correct. I shouldn't try and type as I'm going out the door to take the dawg to the vet.

[tjpopkin]

I have 3: a pair of S&Ws and 1 Colt. The Colt is a bit battle worn and I hope to sell it and eventually get a TARGET version of the S&W to round our my .32 collection……

[DWalt]

I also have a Colt Army Special .32-20, but from earlier (1912), and with the very desirable 4-1/2" barrel. And also a .32-20 Colt OP (the AS successor) with a 6" barrel from 1933, in virtually mint condition.

[dogngun]

On .32-20 ammo for sale...Try Ammoseek and keep looking every week or so...Cabelas has some cowboy loads in stock and usually has Remington ammo, too, and Sportsmans Guide carries at least 4 different loads, all back ordered at this time, but they have a notify me list. I did buy a few boxes easily enough last summer, which struck me as funny because I had a MUCH harder time finding .380 ACP...

It is out there, but you have to be diligent.

Also, I usually read that the .32-20 is terrible for a defense revolver, but it does seem to have decent velocity and is amazingly accurate, so I have to wonder about that...with some sort of JHP, I think it would be potent. Any opinions?

[Plain Old Dave]

Originally Posted by dogngun

On .32-20 ammo for sale...Try Ammoseek and keep looking every week or so...Cabelas has some cowboy loads in stock and usually has Remington ammo, too, and Sportsmans Guide carries at least 4 different loads, all back ordered at this time, but they have a notify me list. I diud buy a few boxes last summer, which struck me as funny because I had a MUCH harder time finding .380 ACP...It is out there, but you have to be diligent.

Also, I usually read that the .32-20 is terrible for a defense revolver, but it does seem to have decent velocity and is amazingly accurate, so I have to wonder about that...with some sort of JHP, I think it would be potent. Any opinions?

Well, policemen carried .32-20s Around Here for decades, and I would imagine if people didn't stop doing whatever they were doing that required gunfire to stop that the .32-20 wouldn't have enjoyed the long career it had in Appalachia. They are as common here as the .38-44s so many members here are fascinated with are in other parts of the country.

[J. R. WEEMS]

Somewhere along lifes way she was refinished, but this is the way she came to me -- She is built like a oldtime watch inside, and still shoots just fine-- I reload for her, saving the high powered stuff for the 32 magnums. Shown before, but here she is again- Read one time these can go off if dropped so she only carries 5 when carried--

[bengal fan]

I posted this 32-20 King Super Target in its own thread when I received it, but I figured it deserves to be pictured here with all the other classic revolvers
This one shipped May 1926

[Vulcan Bob]

I'm late to the party but hey I just got it last week! Just a standard M&P in 32-20, all matching including the pencil marked grips. With a serial of 139565 I think it's a late one. Haven't shot it yet but I'm working on that!

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Vulcan Bob

I'm late to the party but hey I just got it last week! Just a standard M&P in 32-20, all matching including the pencil marked grips. With a serial of 139565 I think it's a late one. Haven't shot it yet but I'm working on that!

Not necessarily insofar as shipment is concerned. There are several nearby SNs on my list which shipped in the late 1920s and early 1930s. But it would have been toward the tail end of production.

[Hunter Keith]

All matching #'s.Lots of honest wear. Tight and smooth.
Serial # 22039 1910 mfg. I think.

[DWalt]

22039 would indicate your M1902 as shipping about 1907, but only a factory letter would be exact. The MOP grips appear original, and are fairly valuable all by themselves. They are delicate, and if you shoot it, you really should replace them with a less-valuable pair to prevent damage.

[Club Gun Fan]

This is my latest Club Gun. It has a Marble front sight pinned over the standard front sight. It letters as "delivered to the office of Douglas B. Wesson on May 22, 1912."

[old tanker]

I have been a fan of .32 WCF for a long time. Here is the result of latest resuscitation effort. The reproduction grips were on it when I bought the gun from ctg4570. Bore and chambers were tolerable, but it needed a little help. It soaked in Kroil for months before the sideplate and cylinder stop spring screws finally came out! Shims took care of the end shake and the slop in the yoke. Fitting an oversize cylinder stop and freshening up the notches in the cylinder fixed the timing and lock up. I do like a five inch barrel! So what say ye?

[finloq]

I love the honest wear

[old tanker]

Here is a 4 inch nickel .32-20 HE that was reportedly a Louisville, Kentucky PD gun. Whether or not that's true, can't say, but the lady who sold it said her dad was a cop and this was his gun. Nothing particularly spectacular, but a well cared for eighty-five year old revolver that shoots like a house afire! ...and yes, the grips number to the gun.

[DWalt]

41910
Closest M1902 I have listed is SN 421xx which shipped 12/22/1908.

[old tanker]

Originally Posted by DWalt

41910
Closest M1902 I have listed is SN 421xx which shipped 12/22/1908.

Figured it was a fairly early one. I can stoke it with black powder loads and not worry about damaging the finish.

[DWalt]

Not sure why you'd use BP loads, but yes, you could.

[old tanker]

More .32-20's, these from those guys in Hartford. The 4-1/2 inch barrel New Army was among the last made, dating to 1907. It was reblued somewhere along the line, but it's sound and shoots fine.

The 5 inch Army Special is from 1925. It's just what appears to be, a well kept revolver exhibiting some honest wear. Lock up is legendary Colt, like a bank vault! Shoots exceedingly well with Lyman 31108 cast bullets and 6.0 grains of DuPont's SR-4756. Rumor has it that Hodgdon is going to discontinue that powder.

[DWalt]

I have a 1912 AS in .32-20, with the somewhat unusual 4-1/2" barrel, also a 1933 OP with 6" barrel. Both minty condition. My standard load is 3.5 gr. Bullseye with 105 gr FP lead bullet. Need nothing better.

[old tanker]

Originally Posted by finloq

I just acquired a collection of (I presume) 50's-60's RNFP. The question is: is this HV or no?



"Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"Attachment 185933Attachment 185934

That red plastic box makes me think they might be somebody's reloads. Back in the Fifities and Sixties hefty charges of Hercules 2400 to use in a Marlin or Remington carbine were not uncommon. Those loads were way too stout for any Hand Ejector and were likely borderline in an Offical Police or even an SAA.

I am generally leery of other folks' handloads unless I know them and their habits really well.

[Muley Gil]

"Here is a 4 inch nickel .32-20 HE that was reportedly a Louisville, Kentucky PD gun. Whether or not that's true, can't say, but the lady who sold it said her dad was a cop and this was his gun."

Back in the day, most police officers and sheriff's depuies were required to buy their own handguns. I carried a S&W M&P .32-20 as a young deputy in the mid '70s (1970s that is ).

[weatherby]

Originally Posted by DWalt

Probably not. I believe the HV ammo had 80 grain jacketed hollow point bullets, and usually had something on the headstamp identifying that it was high velocity. At one time I had some .32-20 rounds with jacketed exposed lead bullets (not hollow pointed) which were not HV. I'll check information in some of the old ammo catalogs.
___________________________________
I checked a variety of both pre-war and post-war Remington, Winchester, and Western ammunition catalogs. In all cases, the .32-20 HV loads listed had 80 grain jacketed hollow point bullets (which Remington describes as "Mushroom" and W-W called Open Point Expanding). You might want to pull a bullet or two and weigh it - if it's more than 80 grains, it's not HV.

Having these on hand 115 grain JSP with a muzzle velocity of 1,480
I'd definitely err on the side of caution.

The headstamp....."is not" marked HV either

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by weatherby

Having these on hand 115 grain JSP with a muzzle velocity of 1,480
I'd definitely err on the side of caution.

The headstamp....."is not" marked HV either

Is the 1480 ft.sec for a rifle or a revolver? The typical modern handgun .32-20 load could well produce about that MV in a longer-barreled rifle. I think the U. S. HV load advertised a rifle MV something close to 1800 ft/sec.

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by DWalt

Is the 1480 ft.sec for a rifle or a revolver? The typical modern handgun .32-20 load could well produce about that MV in a longer-barreled rifle. I think the U. S. HV load advertised a rifle MV something close to 1800 ft/sec.

I agree. I believe those rounds would be safe in a revolver.

[weatherby]

I'd hope neither of you guys would shoot them in a revolver.

If they weren't in the box who would know ?

Just think sometimes it is better to be very cautious.





I just looked at the 80 grain stuff and the muzzle velocity of it is 2100 FPS

[DWalt]

Back in the good ol' days many of the good ol' boys fired the HV rifle loads in their .32-20 revolvers. I've been present when that was done, and nothing blew up. I have also been given to understand that cops, etc., who carried .32-20 revolvers were known to load up with the HV loads an an easy way to magnumize their revolvers. There was a lot more metal around those .32-20 chambers than with the ,38 Specials, so they were pretty strong. I might be leery of using HV loads in any revolver made before, say, 1920, and especially in the old BP Colt single action revolvers. The .32-20 was a fairly popular chambering in the single action colts, especially the Bisley Model.

Is anyone aware of verified gun damage as a result of shooting HV loads in a revolver? I am not, and never remember reading about any such occurrences. Not that I would ever recommend the practice, but even if anyone did, it's not likely any ka-booms would result.
---------------------------
Back to my Quickload internal ballistics computer program to find out. I simulated a .32-20 HV load using an 85 grain 0.312" dia. jacketed bullet and 12.5 grains of 2400. That resulted in a MV of 2095 ft/sec in a 22" barrel. The calculated maximum average chamber pressure (MAP) was 22,326 psi. That's actually not that much, and a good revolver (such as a post-heat treat K frame or a Colt solid frame revolver, such as the OP) should handle it with ease.

SAAMI seems to not have established an MAP standard for the .32-20, at least they do not have it listed. However, CIP has, and it is 30,500 psi. Generally SAAMI and CIP MAPs are not that far apart, but they do use different MAP measurement methods. Not much chance of finding any .32-20 HV loads anyway, as it was dropped from the ammo catalogs in the early 1960s.

[Muley Gil]

IIRC, Skeeter Skelton was known to occasionally fire the HV .32-20 ammo in post 1900 Single Action Army revolvers.