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11-07-2022, 11:43 AM
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Identify - 4 Digit .22lr Revolver?
You try to absorb everything your mentor tells you, but sometimes something gets by you. My grandfather passed away and left me this 6 Shot .22 revolver. I thought it might be a Kit gun, but I am now not convinced. He told me the model but for the life of me I can’t remember. Can anyone give me a clue to Model, Date?
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11-07-2022, 11:50 AM
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Welcome aboard!
Sorry to hear about your grandfather.
Yes, that's a .22/32 Kit gun. I'm pretty sure the large trigger guard indicates it was made in or after 1953.
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Last edited by s&wchad; 11-07-2022 at 11:51 AM.
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11-07-2022, 11:53 AM
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Chad beat me to it .
It dates to between 1953 - ‘56. This style of frame with the upper sideplate screw on the right frame was used in the “model of 1953” and lasted about 2-3 years in production. Enjoy!
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Alan
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11-07-2022, 11:56 AM
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Low serial number, surely a first year - 1953 - gun.
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11-07-2022, 12:13 PM
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So it is a 1953 .22/32 Kit gun. Would it be called a K22? I am insuring it and need to have it for my insurance company.
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11-07-2022, 12:16 PM
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The K refers to the frame size, and yours is a variation of an I frame. .22/32 Kit Gun is the full name; a later similar gun was also named the model 34 but this was several years after yours was made.
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Alan
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11-07-2022, 02:01 PM
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Maybe a S&W Model 34 4" ?
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11-07-2022, 02:08 PM
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Welcome to the forum.
As others have stated, you have a Model of 1953 .22/32 Kit Gun or a pre model 34. The pre war and post war versions were in serial number ranges of 525670 to 536684 and 536685 to 590000 respectively. Your gun produced in 2" and 4" versions eliminates the leaf spring and incorporates the coil main spring. Therefore there should be no strain screw on the front grip strap and IIRC no trigger guard screw. This is a .22 caliber firearm built on the larger .32 caliber frame, hence the name. Originally suggested by San Francisco gun dealer Phillip Bekeart in 1911 as a 6" target revolver, around 1938 S&W brought it out with a 4" barrel calling it the "kit" gun. Promoted as small enough to fit in a fisherman's or hunter's kit. Originally built on the I frame and then the improved I frame and then the J frame around 1961.
Your gun should be a first year gun as the serial block started at 101 and reached around 5000 by 1954.
Prices are all over the board on these however, many of us collectors would say that since this was your grandfather's gun, it is priceless. Many were produced but only this one gun belonged to a family member.
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11-07-2022, 03:05 PM
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DMIEZ
I join the others in welcoming you to the S&W Forum. It's a great place to "hang out" and you will learn much here.
James gave you good information about the .22/32 Kit Gun. I would make one small correction. The Kit Gun was never built on the Improved I frame. The early postwar units were built on the original I frame with the leaf spring that James mentioned. But in 1953, the New I frame with some dimensional changes was introduced and it was at that time that the Kit Gun shifted from the original I frame to the New I frame. All Kit Guns subsequent to that time (including the Model 34, beginning in 1958) were built on the New I frame until they were converted to the J frame in 1960.
I completely agree with James in the heirloom status of your Kit Gun. I hope it remains in your family.
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11-07-2022, 05:51 PM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!
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11-07-2022, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
I would make one small correction. The Kit Gun was never built on the Improved I frame
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Jack, the OP's gun and all of the 1953 model guns were built on the Improved I frame until around 1961 when it switches to the J frame. Not sure where I err'd........but willing to learn.
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James Redfield
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11-07-2022, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR III
Jack, the OP's gun and all of the 1953 model guns were built on the Improved I frame until around 1961 when it switches to the J frame. Not sure where I err'd........but willing to learn.
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The language you are using here reflects what the SCSW 4th states regarding the .22/32 revolvers on pages 134 and 241-242. However, that is incorrect. Jim Carter's history of the I frame evolution on pages 144 and 146 correct the record. Look especially at paragraphs 2 and 3 on page 144. Also paragraphs 2 and 3 on page 146.
The "improved I frame" was replaced with the "new I frame" in 1953. There were no .22/32 revolvers made using the improved I frame (page 144, paragraph 2).
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11-07-2022, 08:40 PM
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James,
The Improved I frame from 1952 eliminated the leaf mainspring and replaced it with a coil spring, that being the evolutionary "improvement" of the Post War Transitional I frame. But they were only made in .32 and .38 S&W caliber.
There are no .22 /32 Kit Guns made on the Improved I frame. It's evolution was directly from the Post War Transitional I frame to the Model of 1953 which is the "New" I frame. The "new" being the coil mainspring, longer grip frame, and larger trigger guard. As some posted above, the OP's kit gun is built on the New I which evolved to the J frame kit gun in the early 1960's as you posted. More specifically Oct. 1960.
The original 1950 J frame underwent the same evolution step when it became the Model of 1953 New J frame.
I see JACK beat me to it!
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Last edited by Hondo44; 11-07-2022 at 08:53 PM.
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11-08-2022, 11:50 AM
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Well I'm confused then. In the Roy Jinks' book, "125 Years with Smith & Wesson" on page 152, paragraph 3, he states "Both 1953 models differed from the original in that they incorporated an improved I frame with a coil-type mainspring and micro-click sights. The improved model was placed in a separate serial number series beginning at serial number 101."
He is referring back to the previous paragraph where he states, "In 1953, a new series was started and the model was called the .22/32 Target Model of 1953 and .22/32 Kit Gun Model of 1953, or what are now referred to as the Model 35 and 34, respectively."
So are you saying that it was an "improved I frame" but not THE improved I frame?????
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11-08-2022, 12:37 PM
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James
The answer to your last question:
"So are you saying that it was an "improved I frame" but not THE improved I frame?" No.
What has happened is that our understanding of the changes has evolved since Roy's book was published. To accommodate that new understanding, Jim (Hondo44) has suggested that we identify the 1953 change in the I and J frames as the "New I frame" (or J) to distinquish the "Improved" from the adjusted dimensions of the 1953 version using the "New I frame" terminology. The grip frame is elongated and the trigger guard became egg shaped instead of round. This allows a terminological difference between the "Improved" with its coil spring and the "New" with its increased dimensions. This is all laid out in the brown pages (pp. 144-146) of the SCSW 4th.
Note: we were already doing this in a way with our distinction between the Baby Chiefs Special and the later Chiefs Special. The Baby Chief had the dimensions of the old I frame in the two areas noted above. Jim's language simply makes the overall distinction easier to identify without limiting it to just the J frames.
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Last edited by JP@AK; 11-08-2022 at 12:41 PM.
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11-08-2022, 02:10 PM
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My head hurts!
Ed
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11-08-2022, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedlate
My head hurts!
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I get it.
I have the same experience when I read the Dutch philosopher
Herman Dooyeweerd or the Dutch theologian/philospher Cornelius van Til. My head aches, but I learn a lot.
Painful but valuable.
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11-08-2022, 03:47 PM
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So as I have jokingly suggested in the past, the "baby J and the non baby J should now be referred to as the J frame and the Improved J frame?????
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James Redfield
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11-08-2022, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR III
So as I have jokingly suggested in the past, the "baby J and the non baby J should now be referred to as the J frame and the Improved J frame?????
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You can call it an Improved J frame. Or New J if you want some consistency in nomenclature with the I frame Models of 1953. The main thing is there's no 'term' police on this forum that are going to tell you what to do.
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Jim
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11-08-2022, 07:21 PM
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The small frame S&W revolvers are a little out of my wheelhouse, but I really like that one. Being an heirloom makes even more special.
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