world war one pilot handguns

Regarding the circumstances of Frank Luke's death, a brief mention of his last flight opens the article "Won With Hardball: The M1911 And The Medal of Honor" in the January 2011 issue of the American Rifleman. I just bring this up it for those interested, and can't comment further.

Of course the author (Barrett Tillman) may be repeating the legend... it may be enlightening if someone wants to write a letter to AR and ask for his source(s).

The Brits established the Royal Flying Corp early in WW1. Pilots were trained and transfered from their regular regimemts, "on loan", to the RFC. which explains why photos of the pilots often show them in uniforms of enlisted men or officers of Artillery, Cavalry, of Foot regiments, etc. Later in WW1 the Royal Air Force was establish as a separate unit of the British armed forces. Smith & Wesson Triple locks and 2nd model .44 Hand ejectors were issued to these pilots. Regulations required the unit armorers to stamp these revolvers with the date issuance to a particular unit in the military, the unit designation, and the unit's inventory , to rack, number. I have about a 1/2 doz. of these guns in my collection, plus the uniforms and aviation gear of the pilots. ( I need a Spad & a Sopwith Camel and a Fokker tri-Plane to complete the display!) A friend of mine has about the same amount of these guns, etc., so someday we will do a joint display for the annual meeting of the S&WCA. One of my guns, a T-Lock .455 cal., serial No. 800, was examined by David Penn, Curator of Exhibits (ret.) at the Imperial War Museum in London. He said it was the best example of a WW1 isssued T-Lock to the Royal Flying Corp. he had ever seen, as it has all the stampings the regulations required. Often, due to other pressing duties, the unit armorers did not take the time to fully stamp the incoming revolvers before the pilots got the guns. It is stamped with Crown proofs on the barrel, frame and cylinder. The butt of the left grip is stamped "53 S' for 53rd Squadron. The butt of the right grip is stamped "RFC 29" for Royal Flying Corp, gun # 29" The 53rd Squadron flew in support of the Bengal Lancers and Lawrence of Arabia in the Mesopotamia campaign against the Turks. This T-Lock was shipped Oct. 29, 1914 to Remington Arms Union Metallic Co., ( REMAUMC) agents for the British Gov't in the USA. Later shipment of the the 2nd Model .44 HEs to the Brits, in my collection, received different stampings. No proof marks, just the military acceptance stamps and the rear of the frame, at the hump of the back strap, is stamped with the date, squadron and gun number. For eample: Ser. No. 48259 is stamped "6.16 over 8RS.RFY over 15 ' Three lines of stampings, meaning "June 1916, 8th Recon. Squadron, gun No. 15" Holsters for these guns are of the Sam Brown type. Regulations, Old Boy! Pip Pip and Tally HO! "If I can't pot a dirty Hun with my S&W, I shall point my swagger stick at them and go "Bang. You're dead!" Ed.

Lt. Luke's Medal of Honor Citation from the Congressional Record...

*LUKE, FRANK, JR. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army Air Corps, 27th Aero Squadron, 1st Pursuit Group, Air Service. Place and date: Near Murvaux, France, 29 September 1918. Entered service at: Phoenix, Ariz. Born: 19 May 1897, Phoenix, Ariz. G.O. No.: 59, W.D., 1919. Citation: After having previously destroyed a number of enemy aircraft within 17 days he voluntarily started on a patrol after German observation balloons. Though pursued by 8 German planes which were protecting the enemy balloon line, he unhesitatingly attacked and shot down in flames 3 German balloons, being himself under heavy fire from ground batteries and the hostile planes. Severely wounded, he descended to within 50 meters of the ground, and flying at this low altitude near the town of Murvaux opened fire upon enemy troops, killing 6 and wounding as many more. Forced to make a landing and surrounded on all sides by the enemy, who called upon him to surrender, he drew his automatic pistol and defended himself gallantly until he fell dead from a wound in the chest.

n4zov said:

Somewhere in the distant past, I've seen a photo of a M1911 equipped with a wire brass catcher mounted on the right side to catch ejected cases. Supposedly it was done to keep the cases from damaging the plane in some way. It wouldn't be possible to carry that contraption in a holster, so I wonder if it ever became an issue item or merely an idea that somebody came up with. I think that photo was in an old edition of W.H.B Smith's "Small Arms of the World."

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I've seen the photo of that contraption too , the pistol also had an extended magazine IIRC. I've also seen photos of 1911 'snail drum' magazines back then , similar to the ones for the Luger , but can't say that they were actually issued.

mkk41 said:

I've seen the photo of that contraption too , the pistol also had an extended magazine IIRC. I've also seen photos of 1911 'snail drum' magazines back then , similar to the ones for the Luger , but can't say that they were actually issued.

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I don't think those ever saw much action.

The .44 Hand Ejectors in a post above were that Second Model, but were chambered for the .455 round in British service. They were also issued to other personnel than just Royal Flying Corps pilots. But I think the RFC/RAF did get most of the Colt .455 autos. During WW II, they were issued to RAF Coastal Command, I guess to get them and their unique ammo in one command.

I used to have one of the S&W .455 revolvers, and wish that I'd kept it. I sold it when a GI Education Bill check was late. Never could find much ammo for it, either. At that time, they weren't expensive collector's items. I paid $31.58 for mine at Gart Bros in Denver in about 1965. That included state tax. Amazing what one remembers from that long ago...The gun was a Second Model in about NRA Very Good Plus condition. Had I been allowed to, and been able to get fresh ammo, I'd have carried it in preference to the S&W .38 that I wore on duty in the USAF. At average handgun ranges, it'd sure have had better stopping power.

T-Star

They still work! I have one in 0.455 that I reload 0.455 cases from Hornady for, using 255 grain LFP sized for 0.454. Also another that had been reamed out for 0.45 colt and also cut. So it gets the same bullet but in 0.45 AR. Even though close to 100 yeas old, they still are accurate. Dave_n

T-Star, If you are referring to my post ("the .44 Hand Ejectors in a post above were that second model...") there were both .44 HE 1st models (Triple Locks) and .44 HE 2nd models sent to the Royal Flying Corps. I have examples of both types with RFC markings. 74,755 total guns were made between 1915 & 1917 as .455 MkII Hand Ejectors. 5,000 of these were S&W .44 Military (New century), aka: Triple Locks. They had their own serial number range, which duplicated the .44 Military New Century models serial number ranges. No caliber markings are on the barrels of these 5,000 guns, so I'll bet there are examples in collections that the owners think are .44 S&W calibers, unless they happen to have British stampings on them. The remaining 69,755 guns are 2nd Model (.455 mark II caliber) Hand Ejectors. Ed.

Air Service Pistols in WWI

I have seen historical equipment issue displays for WWI Air Service which included M1911 pistol, M1912 mag pouch, and M1916 holster. I also know from talking to veterans back in the 1970's that in the early days there were not enough firearms and many carried whatever they could get their hands on before shipping out. There were still a lot of revolvers, including the SAA, in the Army inventory that were pressed into service in the early days of the war. My grandfather was still pissed 50 years after the war that he had loaned a favorite gun to a WWI Airman who never brought it back. Same kind of thing happened in the early stages of WWII aswell.

Ed,

I hope that you and your friend (Larry?) will put that display together for a future SWCA show. And it would be icing on the cake if you can still fit into your original WWI uniform. I think that, with a couple of whacks with your swagger stick, you could get that unruly bunch in shape.

Bob

Bob, I've already used up a foot locker full of swagger sticks just trying to keep Larry in line! - Jealosy will get you no where! I can still fit into my Sea Scout uniform! It does take me a little longer to hoist the main sail, however. Ed.

Hi OPOEFC, any chance you could post some pictures of these .455 S&W's and their equipment? These are my very favorite S&Ws and a revolver issued to the RFC would be icing on the cake!Thanks in advance. You have rekindled my quest for one.

Dan Meigs is my official photo poster. I'l take a couple of them,& some gear, to the next Yuma gun show for Dan to photo & post to this thread. Minty RFC guns are hard to come by, as most saw duty in rough conditions, but they are out there, so keep looking. Ed.

Jack Flash said:

Regarding the circumstances of Frank Luke's death, a brief mention of his last flight opens the article "Won With Hardball: The M1911 And The Medal of Honor" in the January 2011 issue of the American Rifleman. I just bring this up it for those interested, and can't comment further.

Of course the author (Barrett Tillman) may be repeating the legend... it may be enlightening if someone wants to write a letter to AR and ask for his source(s).

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Barrett Tillman writes extensively about aircraft, and may well know the truth about Luke.

Is that story available Online?

Oscar Zulu said:

The brass catcher for the .45 1911 was used with an extended magazine, 15 rounds I believe. It was to prevent empties from flying into the propellers of pusher type aircraft. Machine guns worked better!
O.Z.

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Actually, they were meant to keep the brass from puncturing the fabric covering of the aircraft, because once torn it would continue tearing until ripped from the fuselage. These were actually used in the begining before they had thoughts about mounting machine guns to the planes.

Makes sense, That is why I have a roll of ducct tape in my Supercub! OZ

I had to read up on Frank Luke after perusing thing thread. What an interesting story, talk about guts!!!!

As an aside to the thread in the Lounge on the FN 1900 pistol,, WW1 Belgian pilot Jan Olieslagers is credited with using his personal FN1900 during the war while flying.
His very first contact with a German aircraft was with a pistol only, but I do not know if it was the FN1900 or another handgun.

Belgian King Albert flew one or two solo observation flights over the front in 1917. His lightly engraved FN1900 is said to have been in his La Panne war-office/residence during the entire war so who knows at this point. Maybe it went along for the ride.

Thanks to Ed and others for the outstanding information they have been so generous to share with the group.

Special thanks to Ikor for the excerpt from the Congressional Record concerning Lt. Luke's MOH.

The 2011 Gun Digest has an article on "Smith & Wessons of The Great War". I don't think any aviators are mentioned, but it looks like an interesting article and I look forward to reading it. For many years my daughter has given me the new edition for Christmas and I just got it yesterday.

Case Deflector

Here is a copy of the advertisment for the Evans case defletor, as mentioned in a previous post. A cropped version of the photograph appears in Smiths book. It shows a 15 round magazine.The case cathers would have been particularly useful in preventing spent cases from jamming the areoplanes controls.
The British Admiralty purchased a total of 50 of these case deflectors from William Evans during September & October 1916.
In August 1916 the Admiralty purchased 57 Colt automatic pistols in .45acp from the trade, these pistols were issued with 20 round magazines, which were made by Fredrick Beesley, London. All of the above would have been isued to the Royal Naval Air Service, rather than the Royal Flying Corps.
The stange thing is that by mid to late 1916 the Lewis and Vickers machine guns were standard issue, so the exact use of these pistols still awaits an explenation.

Regards
AlanD
Sydney