I RECEIVED A WONDERFUL CHRISTMAS PRESENT-ONE OF THE 12 38/44 "LIGHT LUG" HEAVY DUTIES THAT WERE SHIPPED TO H.H. HARRIS IN 1960. I THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE THE CHRISTMAS CHEER WITH ALL! ENJOY!

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38-44heavyduty.com

We sure do need a "green with envy" smiley. Durn that is nice.

That sure is sweet. I wonder what it is that I'm doing wrong that Santa didn't leave me one like that?? Kyle

Very nice and thanks for sharing. It would be interesting to see how the balance felt versus the standard lug.

Do you know the rationale behind such and order or why?

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

This is a bad Thing, very bad. Good for you, very bad for me. In my extreme S&W ignorance, I was offered a revolver just like this and turned it down as I thought the lack of shroud and funny front sight were incorrect. it was at the Missouri Vally Gun Show in KC last June(?). A guy in the parking lot was trying to sell a couple of beater shotguns and 2 revolvers. I knew enough to recognize an N frame in pretty good shape but neither the guy with me nor I had ever heard of such a thing. We both own multiple HDs and we were just certain that this could not be correct and somebody was selling some pieced together revolver. We walked away proud of ourselves for avoiding an obvious fake. Poop

POOP POOP POOP The story of my life. Ignorance overcomes opportunity again.

Mr. 1Aspinhill, congratulations on a rare catch and thanks for educating me.

MD

Bill,

Congratulations on locating and getting that extremely rare gun. One of twelve!! Nice job.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you & your family.

Tom

Nice score Bill. I like that 4 inch nickle pre war HD you snagged also. VERY Merry Christmas!

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Sure you did

Bill,
Great Christmas present. Did you already have one of these or does this fill another niche on your collection? And was this a present to yourself or did Santa bring it? Like others have said, I must need to get on better terms with the jolly old guy to see if I can be nice enough to get something like this next year. Congrats on another.

Well, I now have another one to be on the lookout for. Thank you very much.

Boy, I sure could use something like that down here. A few friends have picked up some Heavy Duty revolvers and I am jealous of them. But I'm more jealous of you.

Bill: Do you know why a 5 screw was shipped so late? Did they have the fixed sight 5 screw frames laying around or did they make them up and they sit for awhile before shipping?

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

So, Bill. Kinda like a "small bore" M1917, would 'ya say?


Just kidding...extremely rare gun. I can't say I knew they ever existed.

Left you a phone message and returned your email but it bounced.

Bob

Nice find, what a way to end the year.

Nobody more deserving of ownership than you, Bill!
My heartfelt congratulations.

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John

Thanks for the compliments. I can't answer why or who wanted the guns to be without the ejector housing. If I can find out I will be sure and write about it. These were not known to us until earlier this year and we know of 3 that have survived and now possibly a 4th is floating around here close by. When I saw pics of these, I didn't know what to think. I wondered to myself if someone put a M&P barrel on a N frame! There were quite a few HDs in stock in the late 50s/early 60s, so how these came to be, they were probably pulled from stock and modified. I have a HD in the S149000 range that was shipped in 1963! The Model 20s we know of were shipped in 1963 and the 20-2s in 1964.
Thanks again,
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

Congratulations, Bill! That HD couldn't find a better home.

Jerry

OK, Bill, is that one Leland's, or have we now located three of the twelve?

Buck

Bill, great acquisition. With so few of that configuration available, it's only fair that at least one of them should end up in your hands.

I'll let you know if I stumble across one out here in CA.

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David Wilson

Bill what better present for Santa to bring. Congrat's on the find and like many have said what better person to have it. Sorry I haven't kept in contact with you and many others. My situation is rough at best times. But have my son a lot if not most of the time. He loves the HD's I have left. Has taken a liking to the 44 HE's. But shot the Austin PD gun just last week. He got a P-17(1917)US rifle for Christmas. Sorry to add more or steal the thread. Miss the 38/44 chase, catch & release but glad you have got the best of the best. Take care

Haggis,
No, this is not the one Leland had and yes there are 3 known of the 12 and sounds like there was another one seen earlier this year but got away at this time.
Bruce, sounds like you and your son are having a great time together shooting. I bought a pre mod 35 for my grandson for when he gets a little older-I can't wait to burn some .22s with him and then graduate him to the bigger stuff when he can handle it. One of your old ones is in the classifieds as we speak! Take care and I'll let you know the next time I'm in your neck of the woods.
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

I take it this gun is not model marked?

I posted a question about the HD sights in another thread. Do you think the ramp is original or was it changed from round when the barrel was modified?

A very rare piece and a real prize for an HD collector.

SP,
Pics of the other 2 known have the same front sight although it is not mentioned in Roy's letter. Possibly further investigation will lead to the answer.
thanks,
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

Bill, Thanks for sharing. I think finding four of the twelve revolvers is an awful good survival rate for these guns. The next one or two might be hard to come by, but that's what makes it fun. Glad to see you have one.

Chad

Congrats Bill

sure beats the socks and underwear I got

Dan

GREAT piece. I spent a few months in Chicago the winter of 1964 (Brrrr!) and visited H.H. Harris a few times to see the offbeat Smiths they tended to have. Very impressive lineup of guns in those glass cases. Unfortunately they wanted money for them and as a starving college student I didn't have any.

That "light lug" Hd brings up the notion of this 5" .44 Special barrel I recently purchased.
Did not think at the time but it has the light lug of a second model .44 but a sight similar to the one shown here. It all looks original to me with a diamond and an S stamped underneath, but no serial number.
My question?
The distance between the lug and the barrel breech measures about 2.410" and about 1.440" from the lug to the frame, without the plunger.
Would those measurements be about right for a lugged HD frame??



I hope to put this on an HD with a bad barrel and convert the cylinder to .44 Special.
Thanks much for any insight!!!
Steve Hughes

Beautiful gun and congrads. I am really impressed with it!

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SWCA 1646

Steve, that looks like it might be a Second Model barrel that was never pinned, though it seems to have been installed on a revolver frame once. Does it have patent dates on the top surface?

The rounded outer edge of the forcing cone (assuming that's part of the original work) says "prewar" to me. Seems to me most postwar barrels are just cut straight across and don't get more than a hasty circumference clean-up treatment.

Yes, I know the 5" barrels were not that common on Second Models -- SCSW calls them "scarce."

Interesting part.

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David Wilson

Yes David, it is pre-war, has patent dates to 1914, was installed and pinned. More difficult to photograph the top... Can you measure your HD?

Anyone know about the shank, lug dimensions relative to a lugged HD?
Thanks,
steve

I measured a prewar HD from 1932 -- give or take a thousandth, the dimensions are the same as the ones you posted.

The front of the locking lug on my HD is more angled up toward the barrel. Yours seems more vertical, with a large diameter cove quarter round eliminating some of the steel that I see on the front end of the lug on my gun.

Here's an angle shot of the barrel.



Photos of .44 HE Seconds that I looked at show a profile more like yours. The profile of the front of the lug on the gun with which Bill started this thread is more like that on a regular full-shroud revolver.

The 1917s and .455 HE/Seconds also have the lug profile with the large quarter-round effect that I see on your barrel.

Side note: After looking at your photos again, I see why I didn't notice the pin cut the first time I looked at them; the upper part of the barrel is rolled away from the lens, which would rotate the pin slot almost completely out of view.

Anyway, sounds like the project you have in mind would work. Sorry I got stuck on the "how old is this barrel" question, which in retrospect I now realize you weren't even asking.

Would it be any simpler in the long run just to get a .44 cylinder and have it and the barrel fitted to a Heavy Duty frame? It would save some rechambering expense.

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David Wilson

Thanks David, I suspect the last word will be mating my barrel to whatever revolver I wind up with, but it sound doable.
As for finding a .44 cylinder, sure, maybe you have an extra for me? (I bought one here a few months ago but it arrived as a .45ACP!?)

Professional pistolsmiths have recommended rechambering the cylinder that has been factory fitted to the gun by line-boring, rather that fitting a chambered cylinder.
thanks again,
Steve

An interesting project. A few years ago I was selling off some guns that just didn't fit my collecting needs. David Carroll took one look at a postwar 44 4" and had to have it. It was a spectacular condtion gun, looking as if it was factory new. Then he sold it back to me because it wouldn't letter as a 44. He'd called Roy and got the bad news that it shipped as a 38/44. David is about as good as anyone at inspecting a gun, sometimes for an extended period and seeing anything there was to see.

Sometimes I make my inspections too brief, but this one, to all appearances was a 44. So David called Roy back and wanted to discuss it. Roy was just as adamant, that it shipped as a 38/44 in a group of guns that were also 38/44s. David spent some time with a magnifier on the barrel and barrel pin and was certain it had never been touched, there was no indication at all the barrel had been removed from the frame. One of those mysteries of the gun world.

But then he noticed the cylinder. All numbered and perfect as you'd expect, no carbon or recoil shield indications of it ever being fired, even at the factory. Then another look disclosed the bores were "in the white". The gun had apparently shipped as a 38/44. Someone had discovered the factory error of it having a 44 barrel on a 38 cylinder gun. So they did what anyone would do, they just rechambered it to 44 special, as is should have been originally.

Everyone was upset. David was upset, his customer was upset, and I was upset. I hate it when I get a perfect gun and it turns out to be a lemon. I sold it to a friend because I was so mad at the gun. He was overjoyed at getting a 4" 44. It filled a hole in his collection. I should have kept it. I'm pretty sure he sold it to someone here on the forum (but he doesn't disclose his customers to outsiders.)

If we get a vote, I'd go with reaming the cylinder. Find a postwar Outdoorsman. Make it into a weird 4" target gun!

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Dick Burg

It's s 5" barrel which is even cooler, IMO, and the bore is "in the white" so maybe it was shipped as a .38 but marked as a .44 so maybe it was rebored by the same fellow that maybe rebored your cylinder, maybe??

"The gun had apparently shipped as a 38/44. Someone had discovered the factory error of it having a 44 barrel on a 38 cylinder gun."

I would imagine that .38s tumbled a mite when fired through that .44 barrel.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Bill,

I'm a little late to the party but let me add my congratulations on your fantastic acquisition!

Russ

I did not know these even existed and had never heard anyone talk about them. Learning about guns like this is what makes this hobby so great.Thanks Bill

Great find, Bill.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

Russ,
Wouldn't it be great if MSHP had these!
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

With the recent threads about the 38-44 Heavy Duty, I thought I'd bring this one back to the top.

It is a very unusual & rare heavy Duty that is part of 1Aspenhill's collection.