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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 01-06-2011, 12:20 PM
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Default RM experts.

I know that S&W advertised the 357 for police use, but is that what they had in mind when developing the revolver? All the deluxe features and options seem to me as indicative of if being intended as a sporting arm. I think maybe the police market was at best a distant secondary consideration but as it turned out many of the guns were sold to police agencies as they wanted the new and powerful cartridge it used. Anyone know the history of the RM well enough to describe their intentions for this gun?

Also, having said that many were sold to cops, anyone have any idea what percentage of RM production went to police?
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:24 PM
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Saxon,

My impression is that the civilian market and the LEO market were parallel marketing efforts.

It is clear that Doug Wesson's world wide hunting trips, the write-ups in the Amer. Rifleman, and the recipients of the early guns were done to develop that segment.

It is also well known that Colt's introduction of the .38 Super in their M1911 platform had really gotten a foothold in the law enforcement community. Consequently, giving the gun to J. Edgar Hoover and other "G-men", the production of the KCPD brochure touting that that entire force was armed with the new .357, etc. had to be aimed at regaining lost share in the police market.

Bob
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:27 PM
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SP,

Don't have facts or figures to back this up but from what I've read I always got the impression the 38/44 HD was the one geared or intended for the LEO market. Plainer and less expensive both to manufacture and buy, it seems a natural for that roll and I believe they sold quite a few more HDs than RMs (pre-war at least).

Just sayin'! (smile)
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:03 PM
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I certainly don't claim to be any sort of expert, but it has always been my impression that the primary market for the RM was intended to be the sporting market. Doug Wesson's hunting trips would seem to back that up as would most of the earliest advertising I've seen that says nothing about police.

Having said that, RM #1 went to J. Edgar. There must have been a reason for that, and I have to think S&W at least had the police market in the back of its head as a secondary market if not primary. And at least some of the later ads note sales to police agencies, obviously to promote police sales.

I think it was, in the end, an evolutionary process. I think S&W probably thought there would be little market with police because of the cost of the gun so went for the sportsman-types, then realized they could pick up some sales with police and started to aim their sales at them too. I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure, but that's my 2 cents worth.
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:10 PM
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Well put bettis!
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:18 PM
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The orginal thought behind the .357 Magnum was to develop a hand arm that could be used in a police cruiser as a replacement for a rifle. The hunting trips taken by D. B. Wesson were to test the effect of the cartridge on "flesh". Based on the results, S&W concluded the .357 Magnum was suitable for hunting big game, although DB's exploits did result in much criticism. Enough testimony from hunters like Sasha Siemel and others finally convinced many outdoorsmen that with enough practice and skill at stalking, the .357 was indeed, a big game cartridge.

Bill
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:29 PM
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I had forgotten that #1 went to Hoover, clearly a move made to interest the police market.

When I look at the RM, with all its deluxe features and long list of options, I don't see it as a cop gun. But I think that was primarily what they intended. The sporting use appears to me to have been the secondary consideration. Unless these is historical documentation that says otherwise, of course.
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:44 PM
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I think they wanted to sell what cop guns they could, to use that in their ads to appeal to other consumers as well.

Some people tend to buy guns used by cops, and it gives the .357 something of an official endorsement.

I think S&W intended the .38-44 HD to be their response to Colt's .38 Super. It held fewer rounds and was slower ro reload, but was more accurate than the Super.

I once owned a .38 Super in the Match grade, and it was the most miserably inaccurate auto that I've had. The ammo headspaced on the small semi-rim, and wasn't consistent in that. Colt now has cases headspacing on the mouth, as with other autopistol ammo. I imagine that they are now pretty accurate. Probably on par with a 9mm Govt. Model, anyway.

That said, my Super Match had a hand-honed action and was very slick and well made. It just wasn't consistently accurate. They are now worth a bundle. I should have kept it, but about 1970, who knew what pre-war Colt guns would now bring?
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:59 PM
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According to the UHP history:

UHP replaced the .44 special with .357 magnums in 1938 due to underpentration by the .44 special rounds. The .357 was a new caliber introduced in 1935 and was only available to police agencies. Each weapon was registered as a way to keep them away from the criminal element.

Don't know if this is factual or not but it's on the UHP history site.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:20 PM
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We know that the 357 was not restricted to police sales. That's an error on the website.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxonPig View Post
When I look at the RM, with all its deluxe features and long list of options, I don't see it as a cop gun. But I think that was primarily what they intended. The sporting use appears to me to have been the secondary consideration. Unless these is historical documentation that says otherwise, of course.
A gun made when they were hand fitted as an assembly procedure, that could be ordered directly, just the way you want it is a great marketing tool (for the time). I could swear I read a gunrag article saying the checkered top was to be non-reflective, nothing more. Joe
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:27 PM
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I figured one of you experts would know for sure. It makes for a good story anyway. Once again there is an amazing wealth of knowledge available here.
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