Ed,

One would assume that # 138226 originally had grip number 1 and therefore a 3rd class Bekeart.

Thanks for the additional # information.

REVISED: I meant 2nd class Bekeart above. Thanks to Masterpiece for catching my typo....again!!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but didn't you mean to state Serial No.138226 be considered a 2nd Class Bekeart given it didn't ship to Philip Bekeart's Shop...or do you now consider it to be a 3rd Class because it lacked the Original Grips stamped with #1...Hmmm??

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Masterpiece

Tracy,

I most certainly did, another TYPO! If this keeps up I'm gonna have to stop posting or start paying you for editing services rendered!!

Thank you, I'll revise post.....

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

No problem!! I am curious though...How much ya' payin' for these "Editing Services"??...Ha!!-Ha!!

All kidding aside...I actually asked the question because I thought the Incorrect Grips may have been why you stated it the way you did!!

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Masterpiece

No, I didn't downgrade to 3rd class because of missing grips. Even if it's a bad assumption that #138226 had grips #1, I feel it's a very good assumption that it was at least in the first run and therefore still in the 2nd class.

P.S. I'm a very generous client.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

Thanks...Had to ask though!! I also believe...given the info came from Ed...one can be pretty well assured 138226 "Was" the 1st of these Revolvers assembled & would have had #1 stamped on Grips given...as he stated in his Post...the Grips on it when he owned it weren't correct!!

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Masterpiece

No longer for sale!!

Not to drag out this thread but that is not necessarily true. 138226 was the first frame to receive a serial number but would not have to be the first gun assembled. If Roy's statement is true, that the numbered stocks were placed on the guns as they were assembled, 138227 could have been assembled before 138226 and received stocks numbered 1.

As far as levels of "Bekeartness", one could actually assign 6 levels.

1) One of the first 294 actually shipped to Bekeart
2) One of the first 1,000 that he ordered but didn't get
3) One of the first 1,044 that were actually produced in the run when 1,000 were requested. (S&W sometimes over produces a run to account for defects)
4) One of the first 3,000 with the numbered stocks
5) One of the guns shipped to Bekeart before becoming a S&W catalogued item (Prior to serial range 160,000)
6) One of the guns shipped to Bekeart as a S&W catalogued item (After serial range 160,000)

As for additional information regarding serial numbers and stock numbers, I own serial number 138289 that just happens to have stock number 289, the last three digits of the serial number. Of the six shipments to Bekeart from June 7 to October 13, mine was shipped in the forth shipment on June 30 and was one of 60 pieces in that shipment. Numerically, it is number 152 as it is the second serial number in shipment 4 with the first 3 shipments being 30 pieces, 60 pieces and 60 pieces.

As an aside, there were guns shipped with lower serial numbers after mine and guns shipped with higher serial numbers before mine. 138294 went out in the first shipment on June 7 and 138265 went out in the last shipment on October 13, 1911.

As Roy has stated numerous times, S&W was in the business of making and selling a product. It is we collectors that need everything tied up in neat little packages and want things to make sense. S&W just wanted to make money. (and they made a boat load of that)

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James Redfield
LM #497

As the original poster of this thread, I must try to catch up, here.
First, I'm happy to see that there remains interest in these old revolvers.
I must admit that no, I have not YET sent the form to Mr. Jinks about this gun. I will, I AM going to.
Life has a way of interfering with events and this has been way-back-burner-ed for me.
I still have the gun and will send the pics to him along with the funds to get it lettered.

After re-reading all of this, I can't miss the impression that it seems to be understood that the first 3000 of the 22/32HFTs were provided with numbered grips.
It also seems understood what the serial numbers of the first two thousand or so revolvers were...
But it has apparently not yet been established what the serial number range(s) of the third thousand or so should be.

It remains intriguing, at least to me.
Hopefully, Mr Jinks can shed some light on the serial number of the three-thousandth 22/32 HFT.

Cheers!

Ricky

I too love these guns and am bringing this thread back up again. I mis stated a figure in my last post as that number has been established for so long it just rolls off my fingers. Bekeart received 294 guns not 292. This is a recent correction after going back into the records and doing extensive research by our fearless leader.

The six Bekeart shipments were June 7-30 pieces, June 22-60 pieces, June 28-60 pieces, June 30-60 pieces, August 31-50 pieces and October 13-34 pieces. Hence 294 guns shipped.

To clarify, the guns were not assembled in any serial number order. They were in fact assembled by stock sequence number. In other words, the first .22/32 HFT assembled bears stock sequence number 1 on the bottom of the left stock panel but there is no way of knowing what serial number that gun has as that information was not recorded.

The guns shipped to Bekeart in the first 6 shipments shown above all fall between 138,227 and 139,275.

The lowest know serial number is 138,226 but did not go to Bekeart.

The second 1,000 guns produced appear to be in the 163,000 range with the lowest number in my database being 163,198.

The third 1,000 guns produced appear to be in the 207,000 range with my lowest recorded gun being 207,998.

139,262 has stock sequence number 1016, 163,198 has stock sequence number 1168 and 207,998 has stock sequence number 2117. This would seem to indicate that the first 1,000 were in the 138,000 to 139,000 range, the second 1,000 were in the 163,000 to 164,000 range and the third 1,000 were in the 207,000 to 208,000 range. 208,403 is my highest serial number with a stock sequence number and that number is 2398.

Following those I have serial numbers recorded in the 220,000, 230,000, 240,000, 250,000, 270,000 290,000 360,000, 380,000, 408,000 409,000, 420,000, 440,000, 495,000, 525,000, 533,000 and 534,000 ranges. Recessed chambers occured somewhere around 525,600. The first one I have recorded is 525,991 shipped in December of 1931.

534,506 (the highest number I have recorded) was shipped in June of 1940.

Just to reiterate that serial numbers are all over, 525,730 shipped in December of 1933 and 525,991 shipped in December of 1931.

The stock sequence number is stamped on the left stock panel and the serial number is penciled on the right stock panel.

I hope this clarifys some of the questions about Bekearts or .22/32 HFT's, if not, ask away and we will continue our education.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Another factoid that I just noticed while reviewing every thread about Bekeart models that I can find, the logo on MrSurly's gun is on the right side. I own 6 .22/32's from 138,266 to 488,263 and other than one gun with NO logo, all have the small S&W logo on the left side of the gun. Not sure what this means, but another piece of information about 207,998.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I don't know who these two revolvers were shipped to, but here are two more for your list:

138555 / 357
138810 / 539

Just to continue the discussion, it appears that the 490 M.W. Robinson guns in the 207,XXX and 208,XXX range are clearly within the last of the 3000 guns with a number imprinted on the bottom of the left stock panel.

The highest number that I have recorded is 208,260 with stock number 2582, the lowest is 207,998 with stock number 2117.

After these guns, the next number in my database is 220,166 shipped in July of 1914 whereas the Robinson guns all shipped in January, February and March of 1914.

The difference between 2117 and 2582 is 465 so one could surmise that the 490 Robinson guns were all numbered below 2600 leaving the block between 2600 and 3000 unaccounted for.

I have about 20 guns serial numbered between 220,XXX and 225,XXX and none were reported to have a stock number on the left panel.

The quest continues.

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James Redfield
LM #497