22/32 Heavy Frame Target (Kit Gun?)

longaction · #1 02-22-2011, 08:54 PM

Please help me set an approximate value on this revolver. Pictures attached. I bought it about 20 years ago for $150, missing its grips and its rear sight blade. Otherwise, it's in excellent mechanical condition with some random rust spots and finish wear as shown. It lettered as a 22/32 Heavy Frame Target shipped in 1934. I always thought it was a "Kit Gun". The rear sight blade is a replacement.

murphydog · #2 02-22-2011, 09:10 PM

Can you post a close-up for the muzzle and front sight in a second message? Is the barrel length 4"?

longaction · #3 02-22-2011, 09:26 PM

Alan: Thanks for the reply. Barrel is 4". I'm, hopelly, posting 5 more pics. Roy Mc.

DCWilson · #4 02-22-2011, 10:06 PM

That's a fine example of what I consider a "virtual" Kit Gun. When the Kit Gun was introduced in 1936, its availability prompted some owners of .22/32 Heavy Frame Target revolvers to return their guns to the factory to be rebarreled as four-inch guns. The factory did not cut the existing barrels, but obligingly mounted new four-inch barrels and stamped them with the serial number of the original gun. On at least one occasion, the company's conversion included installation of a new recessed cylinder that was also numbered to the much earlier frame. I have that gun in my possession -- 364316. Here's a picture.

This gun has the same wide USRA pocket revolver sight that is seen on your gun. My gun went back to the factory at least once, and possibly twice depending on how you interpret the evidence. The known return was date-stamped 11.46, so the gun either got a postwar conversion, or was repaired/reblued after an earlier conversion.

Modified .22/32s like this don't change hands too often, or may not be recognized when they do, so it's hard to pick a value for them. Neither Kit Gun nor Heavy Frame Target collectors would pay top dollar for it because it is not original in the eyes of either. Nonetheless, my opinion is that somebody who wanted a prewar Kit Gun but couldn't see going the $2500-3000 that they sometimes command might be willing to pay a third that much for an old conversion based on the same frame. I'm not sure that HFT collectors would go for it at all, because there are plenty of originals around that they could go after. It's the Kit Guns that are in short supply. And to some it will never be anything more than a $300 shooter whose value was erased with the modifications.

I can read the frame serial number in your photos, but I can't make out the number stamped in the grips. It appears to be different.

Nice gun. And the price was definitely right.

murphydog · #5 02-22-2011, 10:12 PM

It has the appearance of a factory front sight. With the matching serial number on the barrel, it could be a factory replacement. David Wilson on the Forum has several pre-war Kit Guns and can advise further - I'm sure he'll be along shortly.

Oops, too late!

longaction · #6 02-23-2011, 10:31 AM

You gentlemen are a vast source of S&W info. For instance, I did not know that some of these revolvers were returned to the factory for re-barreling etc. The grips shown in my pic are replacements that I hope are period correct. Otherwise, I believe that this gun is in it's original configuration and not a returned specimen because of the letter from S&W's historian. Bear with me while I quote a paragraph from that letter. Maybe this will help clear up things.

"We have researched you Smith & Wesson .22/32 Heavy Frame Target, Special Production, caliber .22 Long Rifle, revolver in company records which indicate that your handgun, with serial number 527712, was shipped from our factory on June 26, 1934 and delivered to Victor Wesson, Smith & Wesson's Plant Superintend, Springfield, MA. The records indicate that this firearm was shipped with a 4 inch barrel, blue finish, and checkered walnut round butt grips. This revolver was specially built at the request of Victor Wesson and delivered to him at the Smith & Wesson Factory."

OK guys, whaddaya think?

DCWilson · #7 02-23-2011, 10:54 AM

Well, heck! That letter is a game changer.

Rather than being a "virtual" Kit Gun, that should probably be called a Proto-Kit Gun, or Pre-Production Kit Gun. The letter documents that it shipped with a four inch barrel, which I have every reason to believe is the one on it now. The fact that it was made as a special order for Victor Wesson really puts the icing on the cake. You would have to sell that gun to find out what it is worth, or at least monitor your PM Inbox to see which of the unsolicited offers you will probably receive is the highest.

I could see that gun going for $2500-7500 depending on how many deep pockets showed up for a hypothetical auction and how hungry they were. If I had any money in my acquisition fund, you'd be reading a PM from me right now rather than this post to the thread.

That's the most interesting Prewar Kit Gun (or close relative) I have seen in a long time.

Yes, those are period-correct stocks on the gun. I think I read 534 as the first three impressed digits, which is within the production range for the Kit Guns. But other models were made with those numbers as well, so those stocks might have been installed first on a .32 Hand Ejector.

H Richard · #8 02-23-2011, 11:06 AM

I think you have a home run!

longaction · #9 02-23-2011, 02:48 PM

The serial number on the grips is 537640. Should I pursue trying to find an original rear sight blade? Thanks for your valued assistance. I feel like the dog that just caught the car.

JSR III · #10 02-23-2011, 03:06 PM

What you have there is a real mongrel with that missing rear sight. Since I like the 22/32 HFT's, I will give you $250 for it, allowing you to make a handsome $100 profit. Let me know.

Masterpiece · #11 02-23-2011, 03:12 PM

What a Super-Rare Find!! I wouldn't worry too much about finding a Rear Sight Blade right now the one that you put in it's place looks just fine for right now. And besides,I doubt it will up the value too much anyway given the "Golden Provenance" your Revolver has!! The Grips look to be period enough & in nice enough condition. The only one's that would help it at all are the "Original" Grips & chances are they are gone forever. Although you might want to post a request in the Wanted Forum and who knows you found probably one of the Rarest Kit-Guns in existence for $150. Maybe you'll get lucky with the Grips too!!!! What I wouldn't give up to have that in my collection!!! By the way where did you find it if I may ask?? And how long ago??

handejector · #12 02-23-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longaction

Bear with me while I quote a paragraph from that letter. Maybe this will help clear up things.

"We have researched you Smith & Wesson .22/32 Heavy Frame Target, Special Production, caliber .22 Long Rifle, revolver in company records which indicate that your handgun, with serial number 527712, was shipped from our factory on June 26, 1934 and delivered to Victor Wesson, Smith & Wesson's Plant Superintend, Springfield, MA. The records indicate that this firearm was shipped with a 4 inch barrel, blue finish, and checkered walnut round butt grips. This revolver was specially built at the request of Victor Wesson and delivered to him at the Smith & Wesson Factory."

OK guys, whaddaya think?

I think-
Bottom of the 9th, Bases loaded.
You swing, and CRACK-
the ball is still climbing as it crosses the infield, headed for the outfield wall........

handejector · #13 02-23-2011, 03:14 PM

and you have exactly the right grips on it.

DCWilson · #14 02-23-2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longaction

The serial number on the grips is 537640. Should I pursue trying to find an original rear sight blade? Thanks for your valued assistance. I feel like the dog that just caught the car.

I half suspect that the rear sight blade is something that was fabricated at the factory to tune up that gun's accuracy, or maybe it is home-made. Unless you find that the gun is inaccurate with those sights, I would leave it as is. It should be possible to find an original sight blade if you want one.

Another alternative is that your gun still has the original sight blade, but the notch has been widened and the top of the blade filed off so the depth of the notch seems no higher than the short vertical portion of the USRA front sight. The virtual KG I mentioned above has a modified rear sight blade.

According to records, a 537xxx serial number should be postwar production. But I have never been clear on which prewar assembly pieces were available for postwar use, and which were numbered from scratch after production started up again. There is some rule of thumb about lines per inch on checkered grips that separates prewar from postwar, but I can't remember what it is.

LoadedRound · #15 02-23-2011, 04:26 PM

Congratulations. That is cooler than the backside of the pillow.
How does it shoot?

RKmesa · #16 02-23-2011, 04:59 PM

Roy:

I think that your $50 for the letter has paid for itself.

Great gun with great history.

Congrats!

longaction · #17 02-23-2011, 06:08 PM

All: I haven't shot the revolver since about 1985 or so and I remember that is was very slick in double action mode. Accuracy was on a par with other kit guns and the replaced rear sight blade worked fine. I am no longer going to shoot it. I originally said that I bought the gun about 20 years ago. Well, in order to accurately answer your question, I looked at my records. I bought the gun in 1982, at a now defunct pawn shop in downtown St. Petersburg, Florida. The shop said the gun wasn't moving so they lowered the price. Those S&W letters are absolutely necessary when working with an unknown. I finally requested a letter on this gun in 2007. Duh, I'm slow. Roy

Masterpiece · #18 02-23-2011, 06:26 PM

Roy,
Makes you wonder how such a "Rare" Revolver with provenance to the S&W Family ever made it all the way to Florida!! Let alone in a "Pawn Shop"!! I hope your plans are to hang on to it forever!! I have some "Rare" 22 Hand Ejector's in my collection,but nothing in comparison to yours. Your Single Revolver "Alone" would make an envious display even at a National S&W Collectors Assoc. Meeting!! You should cherish it for many years to come!!

All The Best,Masterpiece

longaction · #19 02-23-2011, 06:45 PM

Masterpiece: Kind words, thanks. Roy

hsguy · #20 02-23-2011, 09:40 PM

Great gun! That gun has enough wear that I would have to shoot it with some standard velocity ammo.