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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 03-04-2011, 05:14 PM
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Default K22 Outdoorsman

I recently found this Outdoorsman while travelling the backroads at a small sports shop. It has just about all the original bluing, some slight freckling (very small) here and there, and a turn ring that only extends a tiny amount out from the notches. The crown at the muzzle has virtually all of its bluing. I would rate it overall at 96%. All numbers match, although the grips do not have any numbers at all. I am guessing they are not original because I thought the Magnas were all post war. The escutcheons on the inside are concave silver. The sight screws look unturned. The rear sight is a thing of beauty, very well fitted. The patridge front sight has a dot milled on the surface. I have not seen that before. The emblem is on the right panel. Is this correct for a pre war? Serial number is 6638xx. Needless to say, the gun now sits in my safe next to the K22 Masterpiece.

So, to recap, I am looking for comments on grips, side panel emblem, front sight. Thanks...
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Old 03-04-2011, 05:23 PM
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Sorry, I have no comments other than, nice find!
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:03 PM
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Nice find. Looks to be in nice condition.
That 'milled' dot on the front sight should be a shiny metal round disc of stainless steel. It there is a depression in the Patridge front sight then the disc has gone missing.

The Registered Magnums had magnas and that was before the end of the run of the K22 First Models. Could be yours are correct for that period. Although, I believe they should still be marked. Maybe they are marked in pencil on the right panel. Look close at it.

Gotta love the pre war K22's. Especially when the bluing is good and the fit and finish are unmolested.

Now, about that 2nd Model Masterpiece...

bdGreen
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:04 PM
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The magnas sound like pre-war to me. I think that if they don't have the patent pending incribed in them they are early pre war.

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Old 03-04-2011, 06:11 PM
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Default k-22 outdoorsman

Your K-22 has the very desirable pre-war magna grips.I have two pre-war k frames that have that magna style grips and neither pair are serial numbered.the front sight bead appears to be the proper silver bead. the large logo stamp is proper for the later styled,higher serial numbered k-22s.The earlier ones had a smaller S&W logo on the left side of the frame. Looks like a real nice piece.
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:29 PM
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Not much to add other than well done! Thanks for shareing
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:37 PM
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I should have referred to my trusty SCSW. It does show the exact grips...page 22....the one at 8 o'clock just below the screwdriver. And yes, front dot is flush with surface of sight. I bought this gun as a package deal with a mint High Standard Supermatic Citation (long fluted barrel) and 2 magazines. Out the door was less than one new S&W classic revolver.
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:59 PM
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Very nice! Congrats on two good finds. I'm partial to the old High Standards too.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:25 PM
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Very nice!!

Those grips are in great shape. It always amazes me to see such high condition on things that were meant to be used--glad some of them make it through the years like that.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:42 PM
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Default K-22 Outdoorsman

Hello and congratulations bigmoose, I have an identical equipped K-22 Outdoorsman and the first four numbers in your serial number are the exact same, the one that lives here was shipped in Aug, 1937. I was thinking the stocks had been replaced but after seeing yours, I'm not sure. The stocks on the one I'm in charge of are not numbered at all! They are pre-war Magnas!
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:53 PM
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Default grips

smitholdtimer,

When I removed these grips, it seemed like it was the first time it was ever done. They are definitely perfectly fitted to the frame and the portion of the side panels under the horns had perfect bluing. I am now convinced they are original.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:10 PM
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The stocks are pre-war magnas (they come to a point in the corners of the checkering). I have several pre-war K-22's that proudly sport those magnas. None of them are SN stamped or penciled.

Congrats on a real beauty.
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:50 AM
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Default Thank you

Everyone,

Thanks for the kind and informative words. I am really impressed with the quality that went into building these .22's. This forum sure is the last word when it comes to finding out anything, no matter how small, about the Smith and Wessons.
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:50 AM
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Wonderful purchase and it sounds like you also got a very good deal on it.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:31 PM
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Question k22 Outdoorsman Grips

Hello everyone,
First let me state that I am not a gun collector as such.
Also I do realize this thread is a little dated however I felt compelled to submit this.
I currently own a K 22 Outdoorsman pre-war with the same grips show in bigmoose pictures. I'm not a gun collector but a fairly decent researcher. Here's what I found:
First, I took my grips off and inside was no serial number however there was a patent # 2081438.
Second, Found the patent # 2081438 and it shows the exact diagrams of the grips bigmoose has as well as mine and many others within the forum.
Third, the patent was filed on October 8, 1935 & patented on May 25, 1937. Inventor was ES Pomeroy, co. was Smith Wesson in Springfield MA.
This verifies to me the authenticity of the style of grips that we have on our Outdoorsman. I posted the link & hopefully it would show up. If not & you want to search this info type into Google search "Smith Wesson patent # 2081438" and you will see the info link you will need.
My thought is that you as a collector can copy the photo and the relevant information there and keep it filed away with your Outdoorsman. I apologize if this is pretty common knowledge already.
New subject:
As I have mentioned I am not a gun collector at all. Here are a couple of questions I hope someone could share insight on.
1. The K22 Outdoorsman I own Serial # 674615 (located on 3-4 areas on the weapon) is original and shoots perfectly. I am considering selling it so this is what I was wondering.
A. Weapon is in very good overall condition however the bluing is visibly worn in some areas. Would you recommend getting it re-blued to enhance it's overall appearance prior to selling it? A few people I have talked to have different thoughts.
B. How does an individual who isn't a dealer even offer a gun for sale for best exposure. I live in Arizona.
Any information anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again,
Gun Novice
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:40 PM
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First off Welcome.......I'm glad you bumped this old thread so I could see a friends gun



Would you recommend getting it re-blued to enhance it's overall appearance prior to selling it?

Not only no but....... no

You want to keep what it has for original finish......not reduce it to 0

On B just start your own post with detailed pictures.....ask value
Post In classified here or GB and ship FFL to FFL......easy
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:23 PM
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Rebluing it would drastically reduce the value. A handgun sold across state lines must be shipped through an FFL license holder, a "dealer", and to a FFL Holder. This is Federal Law. If you would have a buyer in another state they would get a copy of a receiving dealers FFL and have it faxed or mailed to your dealer. It would then be shipped to the out of state FFL and the buyer would buy it from the receiving dealer. The FFL' would charge you a fee on each end. You should include those costs in your price. Speak t a couple of FFL's in your area and find out "if" they will do this service and what they charge. You can ship directly to an FFL yourself, but you must ship via Fed Ex or UPS at overnight rates nad it is very expensive. Usually having a FFL handle the shipping is less as they can ship through the USPS at minimal rates.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:55 AM
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Default Thanks for thr great input

Thanks for the great information. I'll look into that ASAP.
The K22 Outdoorsman I have is all original. The box that I have is not the original Red Outdoorsman Box but its a blue S&W 1960's original. I also have A K22 Model 17 6" unused complete cleaning set.
Do you think it would be wise to offer the box & other items that are not original "Outdoorsman" items with the sale of the gun or just the pistol alone?

I know I can easily sell the Model 17 box, paper work & cleaning kit.
Like I said I am a collector, unfortunately not a gun collector.

Thanks for your comments, they really do help folks like me that have little insight into this area.
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:28 PM
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First, welcome to the Forum. I totally agree with weatherby & H Richard not to refinish any collectible gun. This model is very collectability and gaining in value, so any refinish would totally eliminate the collector market and greatly reduce the value. I have always said we are merely temporary caretakers of our collections and need to consider the ramifications of what we do to "customize" or refinish.

Value is totally dependent on condition today, but I will tell you that almost any working K22 Outdoorsman will bring $500 to $600, with nicer examples going much higher.

The Blue boxes are not valuable yet and it would serve no purpose, nor would it add value to your gun, plus you can just sell it separately without need to worry about transferring ownership. Lastly, your revolver was made before WWII and all examples are considered Curio & Relics, so can be sold to a C&R FFL as well as through a dealer. Different states vary on buying and selling, but the best route to take is use your local FFL to ship to a C&R FFL or the buyer's FFL.

Good luck.
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Novice View Post
New subject:
As I have mentioned I am not a gun collector at all. Here are a couple of questions I hope someone could share insight on.
1. The K22 Outdoorsman I own Serial # 674615 (located on 3-4 areas on the weapon) is original and shoots perfectly. I am considering selling it so this is what I was wondering.
A. Weapon is in very good overall condition however the bluing is visibly worn in some areas. Would you recommend getting it re-blued to enhance it's overall appearance prior to selling it?
B. How does an individual who isn't a dealer even offer a gun for sale for best exposure. I live in Arizona.
GN:

My thoughts on your above questions:

A. For sure - DO NOT refinish . I for one love a little silver in the right places and although it will no longer be a high-end example of a collectible firearm, it still retains its history and wears it proudly.

B. If you really want to sell it (I would recommend against that), AZ is one of the friendliest gun states. I also live in the AZ, but if you really want it to be seen, GunBroker.com or one of the other online auction houses can get the exposure to a national audience. In AZ, you can sell it to another AZ resident in a Face to Face transaction as long as you both have proper AZ identification and you are not selling it to someone who you know cannot legally own the gun. You also get a pretty wide audience of interested parties by selling it in the For Sale section of this forum. If you do this, READ THE Rules, set a price, take lots of clear photos and post it for sale.

The K-22 (both the pre-war Outdoorsman and the pre and post war Masterpiece) are some of my favorite guns...

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Old 06-11-2015, 06:43 PM
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Default I get it -Kinda

So here I have an all original K22 Outdoorsman including the patented Magna grips. ( around 1938-1939) Because this gun has probably always been in AZ there is no sign of rust, pitting etc. The barrel is clean & shiny. The worn bluing is really the only area that needs improvement.

Now, if I buy a 69 Camaro SS 327 and I restore it back to as original as possible with even some aftermarket parts, when finished I still have a highly valuable & collectable vehicle. If I didn't restore it and sold it as is I would only get an as is price.

Lets say this gun would sell for $1400 with the bluing in 90% good condition. I do nothing to it and I get $600.00. It is hard for me to understand that a professionally re-blued gun would not sell or appeal to collectors at a price greater than the later. In mint condition you know the Camaro was refinished as are so many highly collected autos.

Not trying to be thorn but maybe you can understand my thinking on this.

Thanks for all the comments & I do understand the issue.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:29 PM
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First of all, welcome to the forum.

Guns are original only once. After being re-finished etc., to collectors they are just nice guns.

You can take a $500.00 gun and have it re-blued for $300.00, and have a nice $400.00 gun as a result.

You'll probably find that the gun that was fun to shoot, and that you just spent $300.00 on is now too pretty to shoot and worth less than what you started with.

This may be a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:39 PM
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Unfortunately you're comparing the proverbial apples to oranges. There's many threads on these forums that will refer to re-finishing firearms and they can be found on the excellent search engine here. In a nut shell, when a firearm is refinished all of the old bluing or nickel is removed, thus creating a piece with zero of the highly sought after original finish.
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Old 06-11-2015, 08:01 PM
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Gun collectors are a fickled bunch and want original finishes. The thing is that the gun will have the old finish removed in prep for a reblue. The process will break the sharp edges so that even an untrained eye will be able to see the difference. Further to that, the color of the new finish is very unlikely to be an exact match to the original.

The analogy to your Camaro would be maybe like poor bodywork in prep for the new paint, or a poor color match.


Quote:
So here I have an all original K22 Outdoorsman including the patented Magna grips. ( around 1938-1939) Because this gun has probably always been in AZ there is no sign of rust, pitting etc. The barrel is clean & shiny. The worn bluing is really the only area that needs improvement.

Now, if I buy a 69 Camaro SS 327 and I restore it back to as original as possible with even some aftermarket parts, when finished I still have a highly valuable & collectable vehicle. If I didn't restore it and sold it as is I would only get an as is price.

Lets say this gun would sell for $1400 with the bluing in 90% good condition. I do nothing to it and I get $600.00. It is hard for me to understand that a professionally re-blued gun would not sell or appeal to collectors at a price greater than the later. In mint condition you know the Camaro was refinished as are so many highly collected autos.

Last edited by AlHunt; 06-11-2015 at 08:21 PM. Reason: wrong quote
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:09 PM
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Default Good Sense

I can see why folks like this forum. All of your comments have been consistently the same. I can't argue with that type of logic. When & if I do offer this K22 Outdoorsman it will be in its current state of condition.

Thanks for all the insight & gun advice. AlHunt your comments really hit home as well as so many others.

Appreciate the wisdom!!

Gun Novice
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:43 PM
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Guns are not cars,and speaking of cars,there are indeed many willing to pay up for clean survivors.A refinished car and refinished gun do have one thing in common.You have no idea of the original condition before the restoration-both could have been rusty wrecks.
You don't mess with the originality or patina of a lot of things,but it antiques or coins.... or a lot of things.
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Old 06-12-2015, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoose View Post
This forum sure is the last word when it comes to finding out anything, no matter how small, about the Smith and Wessons.
Isn't that the truth!

And not just S&W. I have yet to see a firearm asked about that someone didn't have sound info about. My wife asked me why I'm on this site all the time. I told her it's not only because it's extremely entertaining, but because I learn something new every time.

Nice revolver, BTW!
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:36 PM
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It's funny when an old thread resurfaces out of the blue, especially when it is one I started. Reading it again after several years made me realize how much I have learned on this forum (and how much I still don't know). Where did I come up with 96% condition? Haven't a clue. I am just not good with percentages. I just re-examined this cool revolver and would say it is in very nice shape for its age, an unrestored, unmolested gun with lots of bluing. And certainly a pleasure to shoot, which I don't hesitate to do.

Thanks to all on this forum for your knowledge, insights, helpfulness, and mostly, your GENEROSITY.

Gun Novice, you don't sound like a gun novice, but if you are, I suspect that you won't be one for long. Thanks for the grip patent info, and I wish you the best of luck in selling your K22, if that is what you decide to do. This forum has a great marketplace and I would suggest that it is probably the most hassle free way to get a S&W sold.
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Old 06-14-2015, 09:12 AM
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Default Gun Novice?? Maybe

Your right Bigmoose, really only a "collector" gun novice. I don't think any former US Marine (1969-1973) can claim ignorance when it comes to weapons. I am no exception.

As a gun collector I lack practical knowledge for sure. However in time I'm sure I will get wiser.

This forum has been such a learning experience already. I'm always amazed as a collector in other areas of the details. I love the small sometimes undetected details that set items, models and values apart. It's beyond me how often we can benefit from the knowledge of other if we will just study and research a little. Just a good lesson I life.

I will continue to follow this forum as well as others on SWF.

Thanks,

Gun Novice
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