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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 03-05-2011, 10:12 PM
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I have a 6 1/2" pre 24 that shipped in fall of '56. It has diamond magnas numbered to the gun, but I was wondering if it would be period correct if I occasionally put a set of non-relieved targets on this revolver? I have a beautiful set that has just been sitting around, and the revolver sure looks good with them.

Last edited by phenson; 03-06-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:34 PM
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The non relieved diamond targets I believe woul;d be correct. More than ;likely they are not numbered. I believe that earlier guns would probably not be correct.The non relieved targets look good on the N frames.

Bob
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:39 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
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N frame target grips were introduced in 1952, according to the SCSW 3rd.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
N frame target grips were introduced in 1952, according to the SCSW 3rd.
Thanks. I was going from memory. Not always a good idea at my age. May be why my wife is always so mad at anniversary. Makes sense now.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:37 AM
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N frame target grips were introduced in 1952, according to the SCSW 3rd.
Hello
I have all Three volumes of The Standard Book of S&W's and they are a great reference source, But I have not always found them to be perfectly accurate so Before I start my response here I would like to make it perfectly clear that I am not attempting to start a Flame War with anyone here on the subject matter of Factory offered S&W target Stock's as they appeared over time, but knowing what I know now I feel compelled to share that information that I have learned in the past 35 Years about the Factory S&W Target stock developments and time lines or spans of which I have obtained this from many various sources that Know or knew Far more than I did on the subject matter here in hopes that other's here may benefit as well on this subject matter and the changes in them as they Occured over time.

With that out of the way & In my Humble Opinion, The time Frame of 1952 would be a Little too early for the -N-Frame diamond Target stocks to have been offered yet from S&W, but it is right in line for the "K-Frame Target stocks" which appeared Three years prior to the-N-frame stock's being correctly estimated at 1952. The Factory-N- frame target stock's were first offered from S&W as an add on Optional stock in January of 1955 @ $7.00 a Pair. They came in Walnut wood and the First issue-N- Frame diamond Target stocks were of Non-Relived Form. In 1956 S&W changed the shape of the-N-frame Target stock's to the famous "Coke Profile" adding a gentle Palm swell to them and they also added the Oval Football shaped relief that we see in them. These stock's started first showing up on the Pre-29's as a standard factory issued stock offering, and could be special ordered on any of the other configuration's of -N- frame Target revolver's back then being offered for the Pre-23's, Pre-24's, Pre-25's or Pre-27 target revolvers at an additional cost to the buyer or an Up-grade from magnas with a slightly added cost.

This same year being 1956, they now offered Select wood on them being of Walnut, Rosewood, or Ganacalo-Alves differing from the Previous offered Non Relieved stock's of Walnut wood and the new styled stock's had a gentle Palm swell placed into them, along with Broader checking Pattern, extending farther out to the edge of the stock panels. This change in stock design & shape was Prompted by Albert Gagne who worked for S&W in their factory stocking department and he also shot on the factory S&W Revolver target shooting team. He was the son of Matheis Gagne who produced all of the famous Walter Roper Custom shooting stocks for many years until he retired and his son Albert served his apprenticeship under his Fathers direction making the Roper stocks before he eventually went to work for S&W upon his Father's retirement. Later on about 1965 or 1966 through the late-1967 time span we saw the famous Coke profile or slight Palm swell disappear from the Target-N-frame stocks as they returned to their original shape or form as the Pre-Coke series stock's were made, Now being made flat sided on the Panels and the checking was much less broad in nature with less lines per inch on this Variation of stock than the Previous coke profile stock's had.

In 1968 time span, the center diamond in the stock's was dropped, as they continued to make them with the Oval relief and in 1976-1979 time frame we saw the half moon crescent relief come into play that was designed by Roy Jinks, who at that time was the head of the S&W service department and his Effort in this new speed Crescent shaped Speed loader cut out design was Initially prompted by Law enforcement Officials who desired a stock that would accept the use of Modern speed loaders without Interfearance while loading the revolvers with them, as the Oval relief stock's would not allow a clean unobstructed insertion of a speed loader.

In the Late 1980's time span S&W started making a Finger Groove Combat style stock as well, just Prior to the Factory S&W stocking department shutting down in the early 1990's time span. After that, They purchased or got their stocks from The spin off Factory stock division and those stocks were of Laminate wood and had a Clover Leaf on the rear of the panels stamped in Ink and this company was known as The Ace Grip Corporation which was very short Lived in supplying the stocks to S&W, as the Altomont Grip corporation became the main supplier of S&W stocks in Laminate form until S&W started Placing Rubber stocks on their guns purchased from Houge. Later they returned to The Altomont Grip Corp. to purchase their wood stocks of which we see used today on the Classic line series of revolver's that S&W is currently Offering. Shown below is the stocks as they appeared in a time line sequence starting with the First issued Non-Relieved style that came after January 1955 through the half Moon crescent relief style that came in the late 1970's time span. Regards, Hammerdown

1955 Non-Relieved first issue S&W stocks that sold for $7.00 per pair when ordered offered in Walnut



The Second variation diamond Target stock's with the famous Coke Profile Palm swell & a wider checking pattern Circa 1956-1964 time span made from select Ganacalo-Alves wood, now being offered in select Walnut, Ganacalo-Alves and American Rosewood



The Third Issue Flat style Panel Circa 1966 time frame Non Palm swelled stocks with a much less broad checking Pattern than the former ones and the Oval football relief was still being used shown in Select grade figured Ganacalo-Alves wood here



Post 1968 Non-Diamond center stock's still showing the Football shaped relief now with less Line's per inch of checking and panels remained to be flat with no palm swell in them. These are of Ganacalo-Alvers wood as well



The final Variation of S&W factory wood checked Target stocks offered Being Post-1976 time span now having the Half Moon Crescent shape relief to readily accept the use of Modern Speed Loaders with them shown in Ganacalo-Alves wood. The checking on this style is very rough in nature as well as the finish sanding or quality of the wood they used in this time span, they had switched to a new Urethane clear finish in this series of stock's, where pervious ones had a Lacquer clear finish applied to them.


Last edited by Hammerdown; 03-06-2011 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:21 AM
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Kurt:

Nice pictorial discussion of the N-Frame Target stocks.

Thanks,
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:54 AM
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Hammerdown, that was the kind of info I am looking for. I have no idea why researched info would start a flame war, I just appreciate it. Actually, I think your post should be made into a sticky.
I told someone else last night I need to quit spending all my money on guns and allocate just a little of it to joining the SWCA and to buying a copy of The Standard Book of S&W's.
Anyways, here's a pic of some .44's. The 4th Model with the non-relieved is second from the top. All my S&W's are shooters by design. The others in the pic being at top, a pre 29 four screw from 1957, third from top, , a post ar transitional 3rd Model from 1946, and bottom, a 1st Model New Century from 1912. Yes, I need a 2nd model....

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Old 03-06-2011, 02:18 PM
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Hammerdown, that was the kind of info I am looking for. I have no idea why researched info would start a flame war, I just appreciate it. Actually, I think your post should be made into a sticky.
I told someone else last night I need to quit spending all my money on guns and allocate just a little of it to joining the SWCA and to buying a copy of The Standard Book of S&W's.
Anyways, here's a pic of some .44's. The 4th Model with the non-relieved is second from the top. All my S&W's are shooters by design. The others in the pic being at top, a pre 29 four screw from 1957, third from top, , a post ar transitional 3rd Model from 1946, and bottom, a 1st Model New Century from 1912. Yes, I need a 2nd model
Hello phenson
I have found in the past that some do not like to be told anything than other what they have read in Reference books and will argue any discrepancies other than what reference books state. I had tried in the past to Make mention that some of the early K-Frame Target stock's had this Palm swell in them calling them "Coke Profile" and was Beat down quickly for it by some saying S&W never made any like that. I Begged to differ with them, as I have Three pairs of them with this Palm swell and one set of them is shown below for you to see that from the Rear, they clearly Exibit the Palm swell, and after these collectors saw my Picture of them Two of them apologized to me with the Third saying well the Checking is not the same though.... The Only difference I can see between the K-Frame stocks and the larger-N-Frame stocks of this nature is that the K-Frame stocks do not have the wide vast amout of checking they placed in the-N-Frame stocks that extended almost fully to the back strap area but both still have that Unmistakeable Palm swell in them from that time span.

I have also found the Hard Way that Nothing is chisled in Stone with S&W's Part's or change over of those parts unless it was safety related, they used up all the supplies of older stock parts on hand as they were a company driven on Making money not keeping collectors and accumulator's of their weapon's apprised of the changes or the parts used on their guns leaving behind no clear cut dates or answer's to these changes, but most were time cutting or money saving to the company. The Information I supplied in my Previous response is a collaboration of information that came to me by my Peer's and most were very well Knowledgeable well seasoned S&WCA Members. That being said I can see you are serious about your S&W's so I will extend the Offer of "being your sponsor into the S&WCA" if you desire ? I have been a member of the association for about 6 years now and my only regret is that I did not join it sooner.

It has given me much insight and Learning and enhances your drive to collect pure S&W's to preserve them.The members of the association will gladly answer any of your questions in their private forum if you ask them to. Early on, I started out with mainly Dash-Series revolvers but once I saw how well the Pre-Models were made and the quality that was put into them that we will Never see the Likes of again to come out of S&W, I sold off or Traded about all of my Dash series revolvers for Five screw Pre-Model series revolvers between 1925-1955 time span. I had a nice Forth Variation .44 Hand eject Target like you have shown but mine was a Transitional model with the Larger Mushroom shaped extractor end and had it's barrel shroud area milled out to accept the Larger extractor.It also came with a Transitional Box that was Intended for the Model of 1926 .44 Hand eject that had a factory sticker of correction on it shown below. I swapped it off to another fellow S&WCA member and Good Friend of mine as his Love for the .44 Caliber was much deeper than mine, and he in Turn traded me his Model of 1950 .357 Magnum being a Pre-27 which is in the Very hard to find factory nickel finish and has a 3-1/2" Barrel which is also in Full Target fashion shown below.

This friend I swapped with on these guns and is an associate member in the S&WCA and he got me started with my S&W collecting many year's back ,so I felt it was high time I showed my appreciation for all that he had done for me in the past by swapping a S&W .44 Special caliber Forth Variation Target Hand eject revolver to him that he really wanted badly and lacked in his collection. Prior to this, I had found him a Second variation hand eject in .44 Special which is shown in Refurbished Factory Nickel wearing it's factory replaced diamond stocks from the late 1940's when it was sent back for a refinish. Also Shown below is the Pre-24 Forth Variation hand eject with it's over strike box I spoke of and the Nickel Pre-27 he swapped to me for it. Being a member of the S&WCA refines a persons collecting Interests and gives them a better view of what these guns Truly mean to the Others around them. The Offer holds if you desire to become a S&WCA member simply drop me a PM. I would be Honored to bring you into one of the beat associations that was ever formed for the preservation and collecting of S&W's... Hammerdown













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Old 03-06-2011, 02:56 PM
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Kurt, that nickel 3 1/2 makes me drool.
It would seem to me that the palm swell in the early N frame stocks would not be that hard to imagine since from what I understand Albert Gagne was working for S&W when they came out with their first target stocks. His father, Mathias, had certainly used that concept as early as the '30's.
I've shot S&W revolvers since I was about 17 years old, and I must admit it was probably the '71 Dirty Harry that sent me on the road to ruin. I have been fortunate over the past couple of years to have some spare funds to pursue owning nice revolvers more than I was able to while serving in the Army.
Since that fortunate event, I've been astounded by how much I don't know even though I have been shooting S&W's going on 40 years.
I appreciate your generous offer of sponsorship, but I was offered sponsorship by another member last night, and will honor my commitment to him. It just goes to show you how generous all of you guys are.
I really look forward to getting into the SWCA and getting to the next level of this passion I've developed, and maybe sending it into some sort of logical path now.
Pat

Last edited by phenson; 03-06-2011 at 03:16 PM.
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2nd model, 357 magnum, coke bottle grips, extractor, jinks, k-frame, model 24, n-frame, roper, rosewood, scsw, shroud, swca, walnut

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