What is the difference between a registered and non-registered magnum and who is it registered by?

The first 5000 or so .357s made by S & W starting in 1935 were built to customer specifications, with any barrel length between 3.5 and 8.75" in 0.25" increments, with a choice of sights and stocks. The factory offered the owner the option of sending in a postcard that would register the gun to the owner, and these guns were stamped "REG ####". These guns are called Registered Magnums even without the certificate. The factory paper certificates mailed back are rare and highly sought after.

The factory stopped the registration process but made about 2000 more identical guns (minus the REG stamping) up to the beginning of WW II; these are called the "non-registered" guns. Both categories refer to pre-WW II guns.

Now you will be treated to lots of photos . Hope this is helpful.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

A ".357" Magnum and its original registration certificate. The registration certificate unconditionally guarantees the revolver against defects in workmanship, etc.

Bill

Thanks Doc & murphydog.
I would guess that Patton's S&W was registered as it was shipped in 1935.

That is what I have read on several occasions. On the otherhand, there are so many myths surrounding General Patton (like Pearl Handled matched Colts) it's hard to know what to believe.

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Andy

Patton carried a Reg Mag. There are several threads here about it.
Whether he sent the card in for the cert I have no clue.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

LTC George W. Patton ordered his ."357" Magnum on 9 September 1935. It was assigned registration number 506.

Bill

Hey Lee,

I guess the time has passed fer sendin' in the card on 'er, eh...




Many Thanks Ol' Pard,

Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Actually, if you are the original purchaser of the gun and still have the return card to request the Registration Certificate, I think you could return the card to Roy and receive a certificate, as he has original blank certificates. I don't find any disclaimer in any of the S&W ads or brochures that indicates there's an expiration date on receiving a Certificate. ( Go for it, Lee! ) Ed.

Ed received it for me- I bet he kept the card.......

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

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Dennis

Were there more registered or non-registered magnums?

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Is this heaven? No, it's Iowa.

Alan answered this question in his earlier post:
Even if the certificate was never requested or issued, the guns with the registration number in the yoke area are properly called Registered Magnums. I think the official number of non-registered Magnums (no reg # in the yoke area) was only about 1,400, rather than 2,000.
So the number of Reg vs. non-reg was about 4 to 1. (But see Supica's note near the bottom of the second column on p. 134 of the SCSW.)

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

So I understand this correctly, all of those 5000 have "Reg" preceding a number whether they were actually registered by the owners?

I ask because I was handed what I believe to be a pre war .357 and did not know enough to look. Before I even try, what is the low end on one of these guns? Can they be had for under $3000?

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Is this heaven? No, it's Iowa.

usually not in great condition unless someone doesn't know what they have. check david carrolls site for current reg mag costs. they can vary a lot due to bbl. lengths, sights, grips, you get the idea.

That is correct. The Reg # was stamped on the frame in the yoke cutout during assembly. Whether the purchaser would return the card for the certificate was, of course, unknown at that time.

Yes, but . . . condition and provenance are everything with these. I know of a few (without provenance) that have changed hands for prices in that neighborhood over the past two or three years. But the better the condition, the more you should expect to pay (I guess that should go without saying, but I've already written it!). Also, there is usually a premium that attaches with uncommon barrel lengths - keeping in mind the latitude the purchaser had in choosing what length he wanted.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

There are only sixty plus Registered Magnums with their certificates, so they are certainly at a premium!!

Bill

These were all custom revolvers. I have understood that even those earlier ones sold when registration certificates were being sent out often were not certificated, especially those that were purchased by law enforcement agencies. Pricewise, I'd guess that about $5K is a bottom price for one in reasonable condition, and way up from there. I ran into a near-junker condition RM about 4 months ago, Being in shootable condition was about the best I could say for it. It had a terrible non-original nickel plated finish.

A lot of these revolvers were sold to law enforcement agencies. The certificates that arrived with those guns were unceremoniously dumped in the trash.

And I still don't understand why Mr. Jinks doesn't include the 50 UHP guns in his tally of factory inscribed RMs.

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No life story has happy end.

We've been having these discussions over the years. Suffice it to say, there is no generally accepted definition of what a Registered Magnum is. We can all agree on the term "Prewar Magnum". We can even agree that some guns are clearly RMs, and others non-RMs. But there's a huge gray area and its where the discussion becomes fun. There is a very small group who feels a gun isn't an RM unless it had the certificate issued. Doesn't really need to be with the gun now, but for it to be registered, it needed to be registered.

Roy doesn't consider the KC guns to be RMs, even though they have the registration number clearly stamped in the yoke. So we do know the top stamped numbers were up around 5300, or maybe I saw a 5315 once. Doesn't matter. And they made a bunch of non-registered guns. They're fun to collect, too. And usually the best bargain because they're just as good but cheaper. The real problem is that the factory decided the registration process was time consuming and expensive, so they might have given great price breaks to all the citys that bought them, but those just didn't include the post card and weren't eligible for registration. So from Roy's perspective, those weren't Registered Magnums. Yes, just because the factory stamped a Reg # in the yoke wasn't defining.

At one time I actually owned and possessed 34 1/2 of them. I had a foolish goal of owning 1% of the production, and I was 2/3rds there. But then I got smart and dumped a bunch of them. No hard feelings, either. I even had 4 of the factory nickel ones! Sure, I've got some left. I even have a pair with consecutive RM #s. They're for sale if anyone wants them...

So from my perspective, a Registered Magnum is any prewar magnum that has a Reg # in its yoke. And I called the KC guns and the St Joe guns RMs even if it was unpopular to do so. Also keep in mind the guns made for overseas shipment weren't eligible for the program. You should make up your own mind before you buy one.

There is some published material. Some much better than others. Roy's article in the 1989 Collectors Journal was great. Less great was the reprinting of it in the Guns and Ammo handguns annual. Its the same except for crummy editing that changed enough stuff to make it suspect. Off and on over the years others have tried to write something of value. So far all have failed. There's even a commercial printing of a book on the subject. It costs a bundle, like maybe $75 after shipping, and didn't really add anything to the body of knowledge on the subject. Some nice photos though.

I have no idea what the current pricing is. For a while I was the one clearing the shelves of every one I saw. I was relentless. But there were others on the same mission doing maybe as well. Very unfortunately, two of them have passed in recent years and their collections dispersed to the winds. Let it also be said they were better guns than mine. And I don't even mind. Its kind of like pornography. I know one when I see one..

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Dick Burg

The most concise answer to your posted question is, "something we all want........desperately."

That's not correct. The certificates did not ship with the guns. A postcard did, that could be returned to get the certificate. Most of the guns shipped to police departments did not include the card so there was no way to get the certificate. I believe Roy has all the blank certificates for the 80% or so that were never registered.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

In another photo displaying my less than stellar abilities to take clear pictures, the bottom revolver shows the yoke-crane area of a friend's recently discovered R.M., whereas the top revolver is Phil Roettinger's which is generally regarded as one of the last Pre-War N.R. Magnums, having left the plant in 1942 just in time to go with Phil to Guadalcanal. Phil's has no markings in the yoke-crane area.

Penultimate Pre Postwar Magnum is in Mexico!

I have a photo of one stamped REG 5378... That is the highest REG number that I have seen.

I have more than a handful of the RM's/Non RM's and I have always liked Dick's definition. BTW - they came in great blue boxes, which are more rare and almost as expensive as the guns themselves. Here are a few, with their representative boxes...



There are a bunch of great threads here on the forum about pre-war 357s, and here's a link to a bunch of photos on the subject, along with some other info:

Pre-War 357 Magnum Appreciation Thread

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

OK, so shoot me. In the end the result is the same. Cop guns don't come with the certs.

As for what is an RM, excuse me for being a simple man but if it has REG XXX on it it's an RM.

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No life story has happy end.

Since you personally bought it new yerself, it oughta be OK.

What's the bbl. length on the upper gun? Do you know if Roettinger ever used it in battle?

The records from the 1930s "suggest" any ".357" with a registration number would be issued a certificate if the owner requested one, regardless if the gun was shipped with a postcard to request the certificate or not. The certificate was a lifetime guarantee for the revolver. I also found a case where a Marine requested a certificate for a "non-registered" Magnum and S&W, per their letter, agreed to send him one.

As with all things S&W, "Never say Never".

Bill

Texas! Did you not ever read the thread (I know it's long) that Onomea started all that time ago?

Penultimate Pre Postwar Magnum is in Mexico!

Yes, during the fighting for Henderson Field, at night, Phil went forward to try to find two of his Marines that were unaccounted for. A Japanese soldier ran towards him in the "fixed bayonet charge" style. Phil fired all six shots and then some but the Japanese soldier fell face-plant style just in front of him. At that point, Phil skeedadled back to his fighting position with the rest of his men.

Sometimes, Phil and I joked about the utility of sidearms for "Possum Squad" work, checking Japanese soldiers who might be playing possum into the hereafter with a shot to the "B" zone. But whether Phil ever actually did that or not, I do not know. He once told me that the .357 would go through both sides of a Japanese helmet, but whether that was an occupied helmet or not was never elaborated.

Phil's NRM is a five-incher bang-on.

Phil, like my father (who fought the battle of Normandy and then on to the end of World War II) was a man I talked to every chance I got -- which was often -- and asked him everything I could think of to ask at the time. Now I cannot ask either of them anything because they are both gone, and I have been able to come up with many more questions I would love to have asked. Still, I do not feel sad because I asked everything I could think of, and do not blame myself for coming up with secondary questions later. That, I believe, is normal. I was most fortunate to have known both my father and Phil Roettinger (and Phil Maher, for that matter) as well as I did and to have been so favored by them in their patience with my pesky questions, which they all did their best to answer even when it may have caused them a nasty memory or two to do so.

Hello all. This is my first post here and there is a great reason why. I picked up the below gun for $350. I thought it was an older model 27. That was until I did my research. this gun even came with a letter from the Gov. of NJ issuing to the family I bought it from. Now I know about it but have no clue what to do now. Here's a pic:



So Hi everyone and what would you do?

Regards,
Fogofwar

You're kidding right? $350 for an RM? When did you acquire this piece?
How about some more pictures?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Welcome to the forum. That's quite an entrance. Can you provide more details--SN, barrel length, type of sights, grips, more pictures, etc.?

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

...by the way, there were 12 guns in that range that shipped to New London, CT. Does yours have any "extra" markings?

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Welcome! I would invest $75 and obtain a history letter:

Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

Then I would post many more photos . An exact barrel length (muzzle to cylinder face) would be nice to know also.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

$350 prices are still going up but slowing down..

....... come on guys; I've told the story before..... less than 10 years ago I got mine for $325.


Fogofwar..... more pics are in order........

and "the rest of the story" !!!!!!




Son of a ....... mine is "Reg. 4629"

I would go back to where ever you purchased that gun and look for more $350 Reg Mag's...

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing - we'd love to see some more photos...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Here's what I suggest. Sell it to me. I'll double your money.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

IMHO, a registered magnum is any .357 magnum that has the registration number on the frame. If I understand the process correctly, you had to specifically order these guns to your set of requirements. So therefore each gun was custom built. The fact that you didn't bother sending in for a piece of paper attesting to that customization to me is merely a matter of personal preference. Most had the gun and that is what they were interested in. Just like some folks threw away the original boxes. Hurts the package but the gun is still the gun.

Perhaps there should be two categories of RM's. RM's with certificates and RM's without certificates.

If you go to college and earn your degree, you are a college graduate. If you don't go to the commencement ceremony and get your diploma, you are STILL a college graduate.

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James Redfield
LM #497

What is a Registered Magnum?